Great read in DEM Wildwasser Online Magazin!
Shame I'm a typical American and can't understand more than a few words!
But I was able to translate the pictures. Looks like a beautiful run made
better by interfering loggers harvesting firewood for their own use, though
I'm surprised to see that chainsaws are legal in Europe.

I too have mixed feelings about "creating" whitewater, but support it
wholeheartedly when the riverbed has already been "modified" by dams,
sluices, blasted for log runs, or other human-related needs, and its
modification creates an economic force that provides the political pressure
required to force agencies to respect good water quality in the remaining
unaltered drainage. There are so many befouled and channeled urban rivers
that would benefit extremely from this kind of attention.

Padeen

"Wilko" wrote in message
news:Ugxfb.2897$732.589184@zonnet-reader-1...
Dave Manby wrote:

Where is kayaking heading? We have got to the stage where we are
building waves specifically for freestyle events next we will have the
rapid covered to keep the rain out and the heat in. Even if it does not
go that far will it get to the stage where river runs will be altered to
make sure the gradient drop on the run is used efficiently and the drops
are bundled together to make descent play waves rather than waste the
gradient on riffles and gravel bars and holes are made safe so as not
recirculate the unfortunate swimmer undercuts and syphons will be
blasted out to 'improve' runs. Tidy up nature she got it wrong (and make
sure the car parks at the put in and take out big enough).

Although I can understand where your concern comes from, I don't see the
future that bleak. Sure, I know of several rivers that have had rapids
blasted (usually by rafting companies), and I know a bunch of artificial
slalom channels, some of which I frequent.

When it comes to the slalom channels, they are usually located in areas
where the river has been regulated extensively. Near a dam, lock or
sluice, where the gradient has been turned by man's interference into
two stretches of almost flat water. In that case, I don't see any
problems with a slalom course being put next to such a man-made river
obstacle.

As for turning dangerous rapids into a pile of rubble, I hate that
approach. There are a lot of rivers that aren't paddled regularly just
because they contain one or more really tricky spots (siphons and such).
Those rivers therefore see less paddlers, which helps to keep them
relatively nice and clean. You can paddle them if you're a good enough
paddler of if don't mind portaging quite a bit.

On the other hand, I don't have problems with small openings being cut
through strainers to create a possible way through rapids that got
clogged with trees after a recent rainfall. An example of this was
recently posted on Soulboater.com:


http://www.soulboater.com/soulboater...icle&sid= 390

Wilko

--
Wilko van den Bergh
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

"padeen" wrote in message ...
Great read in DEM Wildwasser Online Magazin!
Shame I'm a typical American and can't understand more than a few words!

Sorry, I sometimes don't think about how many languages are spoken on
this newsgroup...

But I was able to translate the pictures. Looks like a beautiful run made
better by interfering loggers harvesting firewood for their own use, though
I'm surprised to see that chainsaws are legal in Europe.

Unlike some Texans, we don't have a habit of using chain saws to
create massacres... ;-)

It's a continuous class V run with four class VI spots, and it's a
little bit away from the normal easy access points, which is in part
why there were so many logs in it.

There are so many befouled and channeled urban rivers
that would benefit extremely from this kind of attention.

My point exactly!

--
Wilko van den Bergh
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

Been away what been happening? !! (down the canyon 18 days and great
weather in October)

In message , Wilko
writes
"padeen" wrote in message
...
Great read in DEM Wildwasser Online Magazin!
Shame I'm a typical American and can't understand more than a few words!

Sorry, I sometimes don't think about how many languages are spoken on
this newsgroup...

But I was able to translate the pictures. Looks like a beautiful run made
better by interfering loggers harvesting firewood for their own use, though
I'm surprised to see that chainsaws are legal in Europe.

Unlike some Texans, we don't have a habit of using chain saws to
create massacres... ;-)

It's a continuous class V run with four class VI spots, and it's a
little bit away from the normal easy access points, which is in part
why there were so many logs in it.

There are so many befouled and channeled urban rivers
that would benefit extremely from this kind of attention.

My point exactly!

--
Wilko van den Bergh
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

--
Dave Manby
Details of the Coruh river and my book "Many Rivers To Run" at
http://www.dmanby.demon.co.uk

Dave Manby writes:

Been away what been happening? !! (down the canyon 18 days and great
weather in October)

In your pet thread? Not a thing. What's been happenin with you?

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

Dave Manby wrote in message ...
Been away what been happening? !! (down the canyon 18 days and great
weather in October)

Dave,

What canyon? The Grand one on the US side of the pond? Trip report??

Riverman, didn't you post earlier this year that you were trying to
hook up on a GC trip in June/July? Any luck?

I was lucky enough to spend 19 days in the Grand Canyon in June/July
and wondered how you faired (fared?)?

Lurker,
Tom

Hi Folks,

For those that need a Colorado/GC river fix, take the tour down my webpage:

http://www.wildcountry.info

All my medium- and large-format pix from my trip. If anyone wants one for
their wall, I can tell ya this-- they look absolutely spectacular at 2'x3'--
the joy of using a larger format than 35mm for photos.

Chuck

in article , Tom at
wrote on 11/5/03 11:00 AM:

I was lucky enough to spend 19 days in the Grand Canyon in June/July
and wondered how you faired (fared?)?

Lurker,
Tom

in October)

Dave,

What canyon? The Grand one on the US side of the pond? Trip report??
peepil

Here is a sort of trip report. As you will work out there was a problem
with language - we had three Americans and at least half a dozen Scots
(Hence a Burns supper either 271 days late or 94 days early) on the
trip.

Explanations if required later!

The moon. The Stars. Hundreds of planes.
Upgrade on the flight out
Hot desert on the way to lees Ferry - and Indian stalls
last supper; what were 4 extras doing there?

Lees ferry campsite
Park ranger passing Whit's old b'aid; failing Andy J's brand new one and
how long could he survive off what was in his belt? And why was Pedro
being so shy?
Hot sun

boats piled to the gunnels (with what turns out to be beer) look more
like prototypes of armoured slave galleys than rafts

Donny has look of, well won't be seeing that equipment again.
Confusion at 1st camp - what order do the buckets go in???

trying to find everything including the “bin ladens�

trying to understand what was being passed off as English stroppy,
grotty, faffiing
'Wash yir hans!"
Dehydration?
Park ranger passes himself off as 'Dept Homeland Security' and tries to
deport Andy J
House rock - 1st big rapid; and helicopter
Good food- not enough cereal, milk

can't believe that REO packed ammo cases full of glass, let alone jars
of glass chilli peppers everyday while later leaving out the two main
ingredients in diet; dessert and coffee
Phantom ranch - green and cool (at least, under the trees)

civilization, phone and poor suckers with a long hard climb out
Horn

Whit takes a bath
Darcey's cooking
Lay over and a play wave - watch the wave change; read a book, hike
Pedro's ringtail traps
Robin - crapper in chief and place man for the groover (and now we all
know why it's called a groover..)
Becky and her clean language
Dry hands and moisturizer

Granite: Andy J places very large deposit in opposition's groover. Well
done Andy!
Stars @ night (and satellites, shootin' stars, planes)
Sand everywhere
Bronwen goes flying on Upset

Bronwen gets upset while flying
Tom and his Earl Grey tea

Andy's deposit later heavily penalized because of missing tea
Dave's cocktails

Dave's thinly disguised whiskey
3 men on a tarp
rattlesnake @ Dubendorff
tarantula @ toe stub camp
Lava!

robin rolls up facing upstream in right side eddy wondering where
groover is
the Burns supper - Darr L and his flying lights

Girls take Grammy after judges discovery that Andy Watts poem was all
created with Scottish-like sounds and not actual words.
Bridget - "I've always had a little bit of Scotland inside me."
The unknown pumpkin man –who wishes to remain anon. (and subsequent
discovery of his props by the park rangers)
Surgeons disappointed that they couldn't operate on Mick's toe
Ice up to the last day--and food, does Donnie eat the leftovers? (no
answer necessary)
Should have had - ceremonial burning old clothes


--
Dave Manby
Details of the Coruh river and my book "Many Rivers To Run" at
http://www.dmanby.demon.co.uk

Jeesh, three ranger encounters on one trip. Are the terrorists threatening
to dam the Colorado again and the rangers are out in force to uncover the
dastardly plot?

Padeen


"Dave Manby" wrote in message
...
in October)

Dave,

What canyon? The Grand one on the US side of the pond? Trip report??
peepil

Here is a sort of trip report. As you will work out there was a problem
with language - we had three Americans and at least half a dozen Scots
(Hence a Burns supper either 271 days late or 94 days early) on the
trip.

Explanations if required later!

The moon. The Stars. Hundreds of planes.
Upgrade on the flight out
Hot desert on the way to lees Ferry - and Indian stalls
last supper; what were 4 extras doing there?

Lees ferry campsite
Park ranger passing Whit's old b'aid; failing Andy J's brand new one and
how long could he survive off what was in his belt? And why was Pedro
being so shy?
Hot sun

boats piled to the gunnels (with what turns out to be beer) look more
like prototypes of armoured slave galleys than rafts

Donny has look of, well won't be seeing that equipment again.
Confusion at 1st camp - what order do the buckets go in???

trying to find everything including the "bin ladens"

trying to understand what was being passed off as English stroppy,
grotty, faffiing
'Wash yir hans!"
Dehydration?
Park ranger passes himself off as 'Dept Homeland Security' and tries to
deport Andy J
House rock - 1st big rapid; and helicopter
Good food- not enough cereal, milk

can't believe that REO packed ammo cases full of glass, let alone jars
of glass chilli peppers everyday while later leaving out the two main
ingredients in diet; dessert and coffee
Phantom ranch - green and cool (at least, under the trees)

civilization, phone and poor suckers with a long hard climb out
Horn

Whit takes a bath
Darcey's cooking
Lay over and a play wave - watch the wave change; read a book, hike
Pedro's ringtail traps
Robin - crapper in chief and place man for the groover (and now we all
know why it's called a groover..)
Becky and her clean language
Dry hands and moisturizer

Granite: Andy J places very large deposit in opposition's groover. Well
done Andy!
Stars @ night (and satellites, shootin' stars, planes)
Sand everywhere
Bronwen goes flying on Upset

Bronwen gets upset while flying
Tom and his Earl Grey tea

Andy's deposit later heavily penalized because of missing tea
Dave's cocktails

Dave's thinly disguised whiskey
3 men on a tarp
rattlesnake @ Dubendorff
tarantula @ toe stub camp
Lava!

robin rolls up facing upstream in right side eddy wondering where
groover is
the Burns supper - Darr L and his flying lights

Girls take Grammy after judges discovery that Andy Watts poem was all
created with Scottish-like sounds and not actual words.
Bridget - "I've always had a little bit of Scotland inside me."
The unknown pumpkin man -who wishes to remain anon. (and subsequent
discovery of his props by the park rangers)
Surgeons disappointed that they couldn't operate on Mick's toe
Ice up to the last day--and food, does Donnie eat the leftovers? (no
answer necessary)
Should have had - ceremonial burning old clothes


--
Dave Manby
Details of the Coruh river and my book "Many Rivers To Run" at
http://www.dmanby.demon.co.uk

Dave Manby wrote in message ...
in October)

Dave,

What canyon? The Grand one on the US side of the pond? Trip report??

Sorry for not being able to help you out with RBP ongoings Dave, much
to my surprise I've been too busy with work to keep up with all the
forums that I frequented lately (when I was in between projects).

Here is a sort of trip report. As you will work out there was a problem
with language - we had three Americans and at least half a dozen Scots
(Hence a Burns supper either 271 days late or 94 days early) on the
trip.

Explanations if required later!

Ah, that would help, especially since I'm already at a loss for
words...

But... the way you write your trip report, it's easy to turn it into a
very fun story even if you (ehm, i.e. *I*) don't understand half of
what was described, let alone of what really went on during the trip!
;-)

Park ranger passes himself off as 'Dept Homeland Security' and tries to
deport Andy J
House rock - 1st big rapid; and helicopter

Was the helicopter at least black?

Robin - crapper in chief and place man for the groover (and now we all
know why it's called a groover..)

What is a "groover"? From your descriptions it sounds like a kind of
sanitary ditch, but I guess it's a river feature in a rapid somewhere
on th GC?

Granite: Andy J places very large deposit in opposition's groover. Well
done Andy!

?

Wilko (Who's utterly clueless when it comes to Scottish (and quite a
bit of the English language and its idiosyncracies))

http://wilko.webzone.ru

Wilko wrote:

What is a "groover"? From your descriptions it sounds like a kind of
sanitary ditch, but I guess it's a river feature in a rapid somewhere
on th GC?


It got the name groover from if you didn't have the toilet seat to go on
top.

http://raf.atd.ucar.edu/~chris/groover.jpg

--Chris