Mary Malmros ) writes:

Now, a few people will be drawn to try the sport by those images.
But -- and this is my second point -- I strongly suspect that the
large majority of them simply cycle right through. They buy a boat
or take a class, and for a little while, they're all about being a
rad dude whitewater boater. But what you're seeing is plain ol'
custy behavior, and after they've bought the figurative t-shirt,
they'll move on to the next thing. Really. You see 'em for a
season, maybe part of a second one...then they kind of fade away.
It's a small, small number that stay with it, and so there IS no
exploding river population coming out of this.

Never underestimate the power of advertising and propaganda. If they want
white water kayaking in plastic pleasure domes to be popular they will
make it popular. Some bank will put up the money.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Mary Malmros typed

(Oci-One Kanubi) writes:

What else has changed? I used to think of the Nantahala Outdoor
Center as the paddlers' Mecca. Now I think of it as Walmart On the
River, though many of the employess still are kind and generous
boaters who are helpful to any boater of any skill level. But how
'bout the acquisition of Dagger and Perception by Watermark? Dagger
and NOC were founded as labors of love by boaters. Now NOC seems to
me to be an unfeeling profit-driven enterprise, and Dagger, founded as
a canoe maker, has stopped making open canoes. I don't think they
LOST money on open-boat manufacture; the profit margin was just not
enough for them. Meanwhile, over at Perception, the real boaters have
bailed out and started Liquid Logic.

Let's be honest, Richard. ANY business is a profit-driven
enterprise. It has to make some profit in order to survive. If
pursuit of profit per se makes a company soulless, then a lot of us
are going to hell.

Let's be more honest, Mary. Small cottage industries that are founded
for love of the product can persist indefinitely providing their
founders with a marginal profit. Large businesses that care nothing
for the product and the customers can persist only so long as they
show their stockholders a competitive return on investment.

The founders of Dagger, and many of the employees, were probably
pretty well content to make a middle-class living, and were willing to
make canoes which brought them a 4%[1] return as well as kayaks that
brought a 11.5%[1] return, because they loved making canoes and loved
having some of the best canoes on the market. Then Watermark offered
big bucks to buy them out. I don't blame the owners for selling, but
I am sorry they did. Now that Watermark has to answer to offshore
investors, they had to cut the 4%[1] products from their inventory,
because those investors just don't care; they have no personal pride
invested in the production of a good whitewater canoe.

Yes, pursuit of profit for pure profit's sake DOES make a company
soulless, and a lot of us ARE going to hell. It is the need to show
shareholders a short-term profit that has so many American companies
turning out shoddy products and making bad business decisions, cooking
the books, shutting down less-profitable but still-viable divisions,
buying a President to avoid environmental regulation and taxes, and
all the corporate malfeasance that yer reading about in yer morning
paper. Profit is necessary in a capitalist system[2], and capitalism
is important -- possibly necessary -- as a strategy for getting the
most creativity and effort from people. But profit tied to
pride-in-workmanship or pride-in-product has far more social value
than pure profit for its own sake.

[1] I'm just making these numbers up; the only thing I know for sure
is that the margin on kayaks is greater than the margin on canoes.

[2] It is arguable whether we are the wealthiest nation in the world
as a result of barely-fettered capitalism, or as a result of the
coincidental juxtaposition, several hundred years ago, of a literate
near-industrial population with a vast array of thitherto unexploited
resources.


-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net 1-301-775-0471
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll.
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu 1-336-713-5077
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters.
================================================== ====================

Oci-One Kanubi wrote:

Last weekend I was with a party from the Winston-Salem/Greensboro area
of North Carolina on the Tuckaseegee River. We pulled out at a beach
below the best surfing spot on the river, at what I am told is the
traditional lunch and potty stop. But this weekend no one could go
into the woods to take care of personal maters, because there were
newly-posted No Trespassing signs. Seems a new owner had taken
possession in the last year. Barry Kennon, pro C-Boater. Posting his
land against paddlers. We learned the identity of the new owner from
a crew of young Kennon groupies who were out there moving rocks around
in the river bed to make the rapid more interesting so they could hang
gates (we didn't ask if Kennon intended to get permission from the
owner of the land on the opposite bank, to string cables from his
trees). They had built a significant cobble dam on river left to
channelize the flow. I wonder if Barry Kennon sports an anti-dam
sticker on his vehicle?

Hypocrisy has been in plentiful supply of late, but this deserves
an award, e.g. the Nobel Hypocrisy Prize.

Which section of the Tuckaseegee was this, Oci-One?

Tuckasegee, East Fork Bonas Defeat Gorge V+
Tuckasegee, Section Above Tanasee Creek Reservoir III-V
Tuckasegee, Section Cedar Cliff Reservior to Cullowhee I-II(III)
Tuckasegee, Section Dillsboro to Rt. 1392 II(III)
Tuckasegee, Section Whittier to Bryson City I-III
Tuckasegee, West Fork Thorpe Dam to Tuckasegee River III-IV+(V)

Bill Tuthill typed:

Oci-One Kanubi wrote:

[snip]

Which section of the Tuckaseegee was this, Oci-One?

Tuckasegee, East Fork Bonas Defeat Gorge V+
Tuckasegee, Section Above Tanasee Creek Reservoir III-V
Tuckasegee, Section Cedar Cliff Reservior to Cullowhee I-II(III)
Tuckasegee, Section Dillsboro to Rt. 1392 II(III)
Tuckasegee, Section Whittier to Bryson City I-III
Tuckasegee, West Fork Thorpe Dam to Tuckasegee River III-IV+(V)

Tuckasegee, Section Dillsboro to Rt. 1392 II(III) ... NOT
(I'd call it a Class I-II)

(William R. Watt) writes:

Mary Malmros ) writes:

Now, a few people will be drawn to try the sport by those images.
But -- and this is my second point -- I strongly suspect that the
large majority of them simply cycle right through. They buy a boat
or take a class, and for a little while, they're all about being a
rad dude whitewater boater. But what you're seeing is plain ol'
custy behavior, and after they've bought the figurative t-shirt,
they'll move on to the next thing. Really. You see 'em for a
season, maybe part of a second one...then they kind of fade away.
It's a small, small number that stay with it, and so there IS no
exploding river population coming out of this.

Never underestimate the power of advertising and propaganda. If they want
white water kayaking in plastic pleasure domes to be popular they will
make it popular. Some bank will put up the money.

Maybe you should stick to statements about paddling around lakes in
a sponson-equipped sailboat, Willster.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

gee, that was a little nasty.

pete


Maybe you should stick to statements about paddling around lakes in
a sponson-equipped sailboat, Willster.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

Mary Malmros typed:

Maybe you should stick to statements about paddling around lakes in
a sponson-equipped sailboat, Willster.

"peteg" typed

gee, that was a little nasty.

But so well-earned!


-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net 1-301-775-0471
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll.
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu 1-336-713-5077
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters.
================================================== ====================

What's wrong with stately pleasure domes for kayaking. Those folks in Las
Vegas don't get wet often enough. Nobody else needs them.

And it ain't kayaking anyway. Addicted kayakers sleep in wet tents in the
winter rains. Standing around an evening campfire in raincoats in the
drizzle. And for a few balmy summer months in farmers' pastures (Hey! Not
there! That's a cow patty!). Waking up in the morning with a cow sniffing
curiously at your face.
Anyone think I'm kidding?

John Adams

"Oci-One Kanubi" wrote in message
om...
Mary Malmros typed:

Maybe you should stick to statements about paddling around lakes in
a sponson-equipped sailboat, Willster.

"peteg" typed

gee, that was a little nasty.

But so well-earned!


-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net 1-301-775-0471
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll.
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu 1-336-713-5077
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters.
================================================== ====================

"peteg" writes:

gee, that was a little nasty.

Hie thee to dejanews, and then come back and tell me if you still
feel that way.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

Yep, I still feel that way. Irregardless of recent history, he contributed a
rational post to the discussion here. Nothing wrong with that.

pete

"Mary Malmros" wrote in message
...
"peteg" writes:

gee, that was a little nasty.

Hie thee to dejanews, and then come back and tell me if you still
feel that way.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.