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#11
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Whitewater park in Downtown Reno Nevada
Hi ya, looking for more info on the park. Anyone been there? Where do you
put in? Is there an outfitter nearby? Any info would be helpful. Thanks, Kim |
#13
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Whitewater park in Downtown Reno Nevada
The park is in Downtown Reno. From HWY 80 take Virginia Street south through
the downtown area. When you cross the river ( about 1/4 mile from 80look to the right. You can't miss it. Find a place to park, get out and paddle. Grnflea wrote: Hi ya, looking for more info on the park. Anyone been there? Where do you put in? Is there an outfitter nearby? Any info would be helpful. Thanks, Kim |
#14
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Stately pleasure domes
Dave Manby wrote:
Where is kayaking heading? We have got to the stage where we are building waves specifically for freestyle events next we will have the rapid covered to keep the rain out and the heat in. Even if it does not go that far will it get to the stage where river runs will be altered to make sure the gradient drop on the run is used efficiently and the drops are bundled together to make descent play waves rather than waste the gradient on riffles and gravel bars and holes are made safe so as not recirculate the unfortunate swimmer undercuts and syphons will be blasted out to 'improve' runs. Tidy up nature she got it wrong (and make sure the car parks at the put in and take out big enough). Although I can understand where your concern comes from, I don't see the future that bleak. Sure, I know of several rivers that have had rapids blasted (usually by rafting companies), and I know a bunch of artificial slalom channels, some of which I frequent. When it comes to the slalom channels, they are usually located in areas where the river has been regulated extensively. Near a dam, lock or sluice, where the gradient has been turned by man's interference into two stretches of almost flat water. In that case, I don't see any problems with a slalom course being put next to such a man-made river obstacle. As for turning dangerous rapids into a pile of rubble, I hate that approach. There are a lot of rivers that aren't paddled regularly just because they contain one or more really tricky spots (siphons and such). Those rivers therefore see less paddlers, which helps to keep them relatively nice and clean. You can paddle them if you're a good enough paddler of if don't mind portaging quite a bit. On the other hand, I don't have problems with small openings being cut through strainers to create a possible way through rapids that got clogged with trees after a recent rainfall. An example of this was recently posted on Soulboater.com: http://www.soulboater.com/soulboater...icle&sid= 390 Wilko -- Wilko van den Bergh Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations. http://wilko.webzone.ru/ |
#15
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Stately pleasure domes
Dave Manby typed:
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan A stately pleasure-dome decree : Where Alph, the sacred river, ran Through caverns measureless to man Now we paddlers have taken to creating our own pleasure domes though this time it is not the marvellous sex that Coleridge wrote about in his poem but we want to alter rivers to make our own play parks. Where is kayaking heading? We have got to the stage where we are building waves specifically for freestyle events next we will have the rapid covered to keep the rain out and the heat in. [snip] I have been disturbed by the trend to commercialize paddling over the last decade. Here in North America, Eric Jackson and Coran Addison have been at the forefront of the effort to fund paddling "professionals", and I have never liked the concept. Part of the reason is that they want to grow the number of boaters to increase the market for their products. For the rest of us, this means more crowded rivers, among other things. I am always ready to help and encourage a newbie in the sport, but I would just as soon limit that to those who find their own way in, not the posers who are sucked in by an X-Games broadcast. Last weekend I was with a party from the Winston-Salem/Greensboro area of North Carolina on the Tuckaseegee River. We pulled out at a beach below the best surfing spot on the river, at what I am told is the traditional lunch and potty stop. But this weekend no one could go into the woods to take care of personal maters, because there were newly-posted No Trespassing signs. Seems a new owner had taken possession in the last year. Barry Kennon, pro C-Boater. Posting his land against paddlers. We learned the identity of the new owner from a crew of young Kennon groupies who were out there moving rocks around in the river bed to make the rapid more interesting so they could hang gates (we didn't ask if Kennon intended to get permission from the owner of the land on the opposite bank, to string cables from his trees). They had built a significant cobble dam on river left to channelize the flow. I wonder if Barry Kennon sports an anti-dam sticker on his vehicle? Something similar happened on the Nantahala River a few years ago, when rodeo boaters rearranged Quarry Rapid to create a rodeo hole where the entire river threads a steep narrow sluiceway ... to the detriment of the thousands of Class II paddlers who flock to the Nantahala every year. What else has changed? I used to think of the Nantahala Outdoor Center as the paddlers' Mecca. Now I think of it as Walmart On the River, though many of the employess still are kind and generous boaters who are helpful to any boater of any skill level. But how 'bout the acquisition of Dagger and Perception by Watermark? Dagger and NOC were founded as labors of love by boaters. Now NOC seems to me to be an unfeeling profit-driven enterprise, and Dagger, founded as a canoe maker, has stopped making open canoes. I don't think they LOST money on open-boat manufacture; the profit margin was just not enough for them. Meanwhile, over at Perception, the real boaters have bailed out and started Liquid Logic. Somehow, these corporate sponsorships, bottom-line manufacturing, big-money competitions, recruitment-oriented river festivals, all seem to me to dragging the sport into an ugly place. Yeh, some young friends of mine are pro rodeo boaters. Yeh, I respect the David Browns, Bob Footes, Ken Kasdorfs who scratch out a living as instructors and expedition guides. But I really think the volunteer organizations like American Whitewater (preferably without corporate entanglements), and club-based instruction and safety programs, are the direction our sport should be taking. How old-school is that? On the up-side, if you build a rodeo hole in an already-trashed urban stretch of river (the rodeo dudes need convenience, eh?) it will keep the squids all concentrated in one place where they won't trash up pristine mountain rivers. -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty -- ================================================== ==================== Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net 1-301-775-0471 Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll. rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu 1-336-713-5077 OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters. ================================================== ==================== |
#16
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Stately pleasure domes
Great read in DEM Wildwasser Online Magazin!
Shame I'm a typical American and can't understand more than a few words! But I was able to translate the pictures. Looks like a beautiful run made better by interfering loggers harvesting firewood for their own use, though I'm surprised to see that chainsaws are legal in Europe. I too have mixed feelings about "creating" whitewater, but support it wholeheartedly when the riverbed has already been "modified" by dams, sluices, blasted for log runs, or other human-related needs, and its modification creates an economic force that provides the political pressure required to force agencies to respect good water quality in the remaining unaltered drainage. There are so many befouled and channeled urban rivers that would benefit extremely from this kind of attention. Padeen "Wilko" wrote in message news:Ugxfb.2897$732.589184@zonnet-reader-1... Dave Manby wrote: Where is kayaking heading? We have got to the stage where we are building waves specifically for freestyle events next we will have the rapid covered to keep the rain out and the heat in. Even if it does not go that far will it get to the stage where river runs will be altered to make sure the gradient drop on the run is used efficiently and the drops are bundled together to make descent play waves rather than waste the gradient on riffles and gravel bars and holes are made safe so as not recirculate the unfortunate swimmer undercuts and syphons will be blasted out to 'improve' runs. Tidy up nature she got it wrong (and make sure the car parks at the put in and take out big enough). Although I can understand where your concern comes from, I don't see the future that bleak. Sure, I know of several rivers that have had rapids blasted (usually by rafting companies), and I know a bunch of artificial slalom channels, some of which I frequent. When it comes to the slalom channels, they are usually located in areas where the river has been regulated extensively. Near a dam, lock or sluice, where the gradient has been turned by man's interference into two stretches of almost flat water. In that case, I don't see any problems with a slalom course being put next to such a man-made river obstacle. As for turning dangerous rapids into a pile of rubble, I hate that approach. There are a lot of rivers that aren't paddled regularly just because they contain one or more really tricky spots (siphons and such). Those rivers therefore see less paddlers, which helps to keep them relatively nice and clean. You can paddle them if you're a good enough paddler of if don't mind portaging quite a bit. On the other hand, I don't have problems with small openings being cut through strainers to create a possible way through rapids that got clogged with trees after a recent rainfall. An example of this was recently posted on Soulboater.com: http://www.soulboater.com/soulboater...icle&sid= 390 Wilko -- Wilko van den Bergh Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations. http://wilko.webzone.ru/ |
#17
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Whitewater park in Downtown Reno Nevada
I just saw Scott Shipley give a presentation on whitewater parks at the Whitewater Symposium (which was All That, btw). I was pretty damn impressed at the sort of things they're doing, including (but not limited to) the Reno park. -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::: Mary Malmros Some days you're the windshield, Other days you're the bug. |
#18
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Stately pleasure domes
(Oci-One Kanubi) writes:
Dave Manby typed: In Xanadu did Kubla Khan A stately pleasure-dome decree : Where Alph, the sacred river, ran Through caverns measureless to man Now we paddlers have taken to creating our own pleasure domes though this time it is not the marvellous sex that Coleridge wrote about in his poem but we want to alter rivers to make our own play parks. Where is kayaking heading? We have got to the stage where we are building waves specifically for freestyle events next we will have the rapid covered to keep the rain out and the heat in. [snip] I have been disturbed by the trend to commercialize paddling over the last decade. Here in North America, Eric Jackson and Coran Addison have been at the forefront of the effort to fund paddling "professionals", and I have never liked the concept. Part of the reason is that they want to grow the number of boaters to increase the market for their products. For the rest of us, this means more crowded rivers, among other things. I am always ready to help and encourage a newbie in the sport, but I would just as soon limit that to those who find their own way in, not the posers who are sucked in by an X-Games broadcast. I don't disagree with your sentiment, but I don't think things will play out the way that you describe. First, as much as it may seem to a long-time whitewater paddler that the sport has become incredibly "commercialized" (whatever that means), it really doesn't occupy a big place in the public consciousness -- and a bunch of SUV ads don't change that. "Hey, Chip, what shall we do this weekend?" "Gosh, I don't know, Jennifer, there are so many choices: we could go on a wine tour, or shopping for antiques, or -- I know! Let's go WHITEWATER KAYAKING!!!" Don't think so. The ads are about image, but the message they're sending isn't, "Go out and buy our SUV -- and, by the way, go whitewater kayaking." It's, "If you buy our SUV, you'll be just as cool as the people in this ad, without ever having to actually DO any of this." Now, a few people will be drawn to try the sport by those images. But -- and this is my second point -- I strongly suspect that the large majority of them simply cycle right through. They buy a boat or take a class, and for a little while, they're all about being a rad dude whitewater boater. But what you're seeing is plain ol' custy behavior, and after they've bought the figurative t-shirt, they'll move on to the next thing. Really. You see 'em for a season, maybe part of a second one...then they kind of fade away. It's a small, small number that stay with it, and so there IS no exploding river population coming out of this. Last weekend I was with a party from the Winston-Salem/Greensboro area of North Carolina on the Tuckaseegee River. We pulled out at a beach below the best surfing spot on the river, at what I am told is the traditional lunch and potty stop. But this weekend no one could go into the woods to take care of personal maters, because there were newly-posted No Trespassing signs. Seems a new owner had taken possession in the last year. Barry Kennon, pro C-Boater. Posting his land against paddlers. We learned the identity of the new owner from a crew of young Kennon groupies who were out there moving rocks around in the river bed to make the rapid more interesting so they could hang gates (we didn't ask if Kennon intended to get permission from the owner of the land on the opposite bank, to string cables from his trees). They had built a significant cobble dam on river left to channelize the flow. I wonder if Barry Kennon sports an anti-dam sticker on his vehicle? I wonder if you dimed him out to whatever passes for a state environmental agency? Something similar happened on the Nantahala River a few years ago, when rodeo boaters rearranged Quarry Rapid to create a rodeo hole where the entire river threads a steep narrow sluiceway ... to the detriment of the thousands of Class II paddlers who flock to the Nantahala every year. See above. What else has changed? I used to think of the Nantahala Outdoor Center as the paddlers' Mecca. Now I think of it as Walmart On the River, though many of the employess still are kind and generous boaters who are helpful to any boater of any skill level. But how 'bout the acquisition of Dagger and Perception by Watermark? Dagger and NOC were founded as labors of love by boaters. Now NOC seems to me to be an unfeeling profit-driven enterprise, and Dagger, founded as a canoe maker, has stopped making open canoes. I don't think they LOST money on open-boat manufacture; the profit margin was just not enough for them. Meanwhile, over at Perception, the real boaters have bailed out and started Liquid Logic. Let's be honest, Richard. ANY business is a profit-driven enterprise. It has to make some profit in order to survive. If pursuit of profit per se makes a company soulless, then a lot of us are going to hell. I think it's hard for any kind of business to grow and still retain focus. Perhaps, in the corporate world, this is what we really mean when we say "soul": a kind of clearly defined focus that allows you to identify what the business is really all about. It may be that any company that's grown and diversified beyond a certain point simply cannot have that kind of "soul". Somehow, these corporate sponsorships, bottom-line manufacturing, big-money competitions, recruitment-oriented river festivals, all seem to me to dragging the sport into an ugly place. Dragging it how? Where and how, exactly, does the ugliness come in? There were corporate sponsors at Deerfield Fest; there were corporate sponsors at the Whitewater Symposium. I don't see how they contributed any uglines. Yeh, some young friends of mine are pro rodeo boaters. Yeh, I respect the David Browns, Bob Footes, Ken Kasdorfs who scratch out a living as instructors and expedition guides. But I really think the volunteer organizations like American Whitewater (preferably without corporate entanglements), and club-based instruction and safety programs, are the direction our sport should be taking. How old-school is that? Not very. Plenty of old-schoolers get damn curmudgeonly over a big national organization such as AW. On the up-side, if you build a rodeo hole in an already-trashed urban stretch of river (the rodeo dudes need convenience, eh?) it will keep the squids all concentrated in one place where they won't trash up pristine mountain rivers. Richard, this is really beneath you. It really, truly is. I have always thought better of you than as someone who seizes on a few superficial features and stereotypes an entire category of paddler as "trash". That's the comment of a sour, bitter old curmudgeon -- not the Oci-One I know. -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::: Mary Malmros Some days you're the windshield, Other days you're the bug. |
#19
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Stately pleasure domes
Hi Mary,
Maybe there's no exploding river population on the Deerfield (I've always felt that the conditions in the NE would limit boaters). It's simply not true out here. The river running population in Idaho is literally exploding. Lots of it is newfound boaters using kayaking as an extended vacation vehicle-- something that has been relatively a foreign concept. But there are also tons of new, young local boaters. TONS. We used to have uncrowded rivers here in the Gem State. Now, if you want solitude, you have to paddle serious Class V. And some of us don't have the time to maintain the edge to do that stuff-- like myself. There's a bunch of other stuff in your piece that is way off-base, but predicated on your argument that the sport isn't growing. I just don't have the time to rebut it all, but I can tell you taking the long view (I've been a kayaker for 23 years), in the last five years we've seen a spurt in growth geometrically equivalent to what I witnessed in the mid-'80s, where popular Eastern runs went from being uncrowded to endless zoos. My first year on the Gauley (1980) there was one other party putting in on the Upper. In 1984, the sport exploded, and something like 1400 put in. We're seeing numbers on the Lochsa now (an incredible Class III-IV roadside run) that reach into the high hundreds-- unheard of even five years ago. Campgrounds up and down the river are filled with boaters, always. And there are a lot of campgrounds. I think urban whitewater parks are a good idea. I'm not as harsh on the young kids as Oci-One, but concentrated park-and-play is not a bad idea, considering the huge population entering the sport. At least, there will be accessible toilets. Best, Chuck in article , Mary Malmros at wrote on 10/6/03 5:42 PM: and so there IS no exploding river population coming out of this. |
#20
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Stately pleasure domes
Mary Malmros typed:
(Oci-One Kanubi) writes: On the up-side, if you build a rodeo hole in an already-trashed urban stretch of river (the rodeo dudes need convenience, eh?) it will keep the squids all concentrated in one place where they won't trash up pristine mountain rivers. Richard, this is really beneath you. It really, truly is. I have always thought better of you than as someone who seizes on a few superficial features and stereotypes an entire category of paddler as "trash". That's the comment of a sour, bitter old curmudgeon -- not the Oci-One I know. Heh heh. Yer figger of speech and mine have collided violently here, evidently. By my usage I wasn't characterizing the *people* as trash, but what they do to a river by planting themselves in one place and becoming obstacles, rather than just passing through leaving no trace, that I refered to as "trash"ing. Not to mention rearranging river beds to make better playspots, though in a way this doesn't bother me so much as it might; after all, after the next hurricane comes through Kennon's little droogies will have to rebuild their playspot from scratch. In fact, the pro boaters I know are fine folks. Hell, I sent Joe Stumpfel and Seth Chapelle $200 each to help get them to Graz for the Worlds, and if she'd qualified for the team I'da sent Heather Chapelle $200 too; not something I'd do for someone I don't like, and an insight into how black-and-white this issue is not, for me. -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty -- ================================================== ==================== Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net 1-301-775-0471 Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll. rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu 1-336-713-5077 OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters. ================================================== ==================== |
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