On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 23:39:21 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 22:12:38 -0400, Gene
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:05:44 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:39:41 -0400, Gene
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:25:30 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 12:41:35 -0400, Gene
wrote:

Holding a big inventory of oil in your tank farm is not without risk
and it takes massive investments in time and money to build the
infrastructure. Not surprisingly, the people who make those
investments expect to earn a profit once in a while.

"A profit once in a while.....?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/business/01oil.html
http://www.grist.org/article/2010-04...ution-while-am
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/29/news...xxon/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...anies/profits/

The oil companies and speculators are almost single-handedly
preventing an economic recovery.... and they are being paid handsomely
to do so..... and you are DEFENDING that?

Incredible.....

It's a very cyclical business and no one feels sorry for Exxon when
they have stagnant growth, or even worse, when they fail to discover
enough new oil to replace what they sold. Unfortunately that is what
is happening. It is probably reasonable to assume that as their
exploration and acquisition costs go up, and as their reserves go
down, they will want a higher price for the product.

In the interest of full disclosure, I own stock in both Exxon and
Chevron-Texaco. Their annual reports make interesting reading and
the future for energy prices is not good.

Somehow, you are missing the reality that when Exxon loses money, the
stockholders are ****ed..... when Exxon continues to make record
profits in an otherwise miserable economy, they are sticking it to all
of the users of gasoline.... one way or the other, the entire
American population.... and to the entire American economy....

Let's not forget that they are entitled to make a profit no matter how
miserable the economy might be. Their costs are going up, way up.
Our cost will go up also. The dollar continues to depreciate.
That's a result of our fiscal policies and upside down balance of
payments. A strong dollar would result in cheaper oil, and that is
what we've been used to in the past.

Corporations are not, like any individual, entitled to commit treason
with impunity.... no matter how important profit is, to some self
centered investors...

Strong words Gene. I always believed you were more thoughtful than
that (unless you are being spoofed of course, in which case I
apologize).

Someone has to explore for this oil, pump it, refine it and deliver it
to us. There has to be a profit in that to provide the incentive to
find and pump more of it, just like any other business or any other
product.

What about the farmers? They also supply an essential product
wouldn't you agree? Right now they are reaping sky high profits on
corn because our government thought it was a good idea to burn ethanol
as fuel. Should we accuse the farmers of treason for making
increased profits on an essential product?

Yes, someone has to do it, and making a profit is important. However,
making a profit should not be and cannot be allowed to destroy the
environment and kill people. Every business I know of has to abide by
regulations that go beyond the day-to-day operation of the corp. There
is nothing wrong with regulating an industry that can do the kind of
environmental damage we've witnessed.

What about farmers? The large agri-business' don't need subsidies,
just like big oil doesn't need them. That should end.

"Wayne B" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:39:41 -0400, Gene
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:25:30 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 12:41:35 -0400, Gene
wrote:

Holding a big inventory of oil in your tank farm is not without risk
and it takes massive investments in time and money to build the
infrastructure. Not surprisingly, the people who make those
investments expect to earn a profit once in a while.

"A profit once in a while.....?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/business/01oil.html
http://www.grist.org/article/2010-04...ution-while-am
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/29/news...xxon/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...anies/profits/

The oil companies and speculators are almost single-handedly
preventing an economic recovery.... and they are being paid handsomely
to do so..... and you are DEFENDING that?

Incredible.....

It's a very cyclical business and no one feels sorry for Exxon when
they have stagnant growth, or even worse, when they fail to discover
enough new oil to replace what they sold. Unfortunately that is what
is happening. It is probably reasonable to assume that as their
exploration and acquisition costs go up, and as their reserves go
down, they will want a higher price for the product.

In the interest of full disclosure, I own stock in both Exxon and
Chevron-Texaco. Their annual reports make interesting reading and
the future for energy prices is not good.

Somehow, you are missing the reality that when Exxon loses money, the
stockholders are ****ed..... when Exxon continues to make record
profits in an otherwise miserable economy, they are sticking it to all
of the users of gasoline.... one way or the other, the entire
American population.... and to the entire American economy....

Let's not forget that they are entitled to make a profit no matter how
miserable the economy might be. Their costs are going up, way up.
Our cost will go up also. The dollar continues to depreciate.
That's a result of our fiscal policies and upside down balance of
payments. A strong dollar would result in cheaper oil, and that is
what we've been used to in the past.


Reply:
Chevron bought Texaco when the oil companies were getting about a 2% return
overall. No one except us stockholders were crying the blues about the poor
oil companies. Is why Texaco went up for sale. I own both Exxon and
Chevron also, and they have been good to wife and I. Not as good as Altria,
but since I figure oil, health and sin will always be profitable, helps with
the retirement. Chevron was getting about a 12% return at the same time
Citigroup was exploiting the masses and the government and returning 35% to
profit margin.

Gene wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:05:44 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:39:41 -0400, Gene
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:25:30 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 12:41:35 -0400, Gene
wrote:

Holding a big inventory of oil in your tank farm is not without risk
and it takes massive investments in time and money to build the
infrastructure. Not surprisingly, the people who make those
investments expect to earn a profit once in a while.
"A profit once in a while.....?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/business/01oil.html
http://www.grist.org/article/2010-04...ution-while-am
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/29/news...xxon/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...anies/profits/

The oil companies and speculators are almost single-handedly
preventing an economic recovery.... and they are being paid handsomely
to do so..... and you are DEFENDING that?

Incredible.....
It's a very cyclical business and no one feels sorry for Exxon when
they have stagnant growth, or even worse, when they fail to discover
enough new oil to replace what they sold. Unfortunately that is what
is happening. It is probably reasonable to assume that as their
exploration and acquisition costs go up, and as their reserves go
down, they will want a higher price for the product.

In the interest of full disclosure, I own stock in both Exxon and
Chevron-Texaco. Their annual reports make interesting reading and
the future for energy prices is not good.
Somehow, you are missing the reality that when Exxon loses money, the
stockholders are ****ed..... when Exxon continues to make record
profits in an otherwise miserable economy, they are sticking it to all
of the users of gasoline.... one way or the other, the entire
American population.... and to the entire American economy....
Let's not forget that they are entitled to make a profit no matter how
miserable the economy might be. Their costs are going up, way up.
Our cost will go up also. The dollar continues to depreciate.
That's a result of our fiscal policies and upside down balance of
payments. A strong dollar would result in cheaper oil, and that is
what we've been used to in the past.

Corporations are not, like any individual, entitled to commit treason
with impunity.... no matter how important profit is, to some self
centered investors...


How unAmerican of you, Gene! :)
Don't you believe in corporations über alles?

I believe we need to "restructure" certain aspects of our society, and
part of that restructuring should be how we handle leases to explore and
drill for oil and natural gas.

There's nothing sacred about for-profit corporations. That model isn't
working anymore for us. It's milking the middle class dry and
accelerating the transfer of wealth to the very rich.

There are any number of oil-producing countries in which ownership of
that asset is retained by the state, and the revenues used to finance
the government. The problem here is that Americans have been brainwashed
into thinking the price-fixing, for-profit private sector that dominates
the energy business is the only way to do that sort of business.

"Wayne B" wrote in message


Let's not forget that they are entitled to make a profit no matter how
miserable the economy might be.

- - -

Whoa...they're "entitled" to make a profit?
Wow...oil company entitlements.

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:39:41 -0400, Gene wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:25:30 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 12:41:35 -0400, Gene
wrote:

Holding a big inventory of oil in your tank farm is not without risk
and it takes massive investments in time and money to build the
infrastructure. Not surprisingly, the people who make those
investments expect to earn a profit once in a while.

"A profit once in a while.....?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/business/01oil.html
http://www.grist.org/article/2010-04...ution-while-am
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/29/news...xxon/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...anies/profits/

The oil companies and speculators are almost single-handedly
preventing an economic recovery.... and they are being paid handsomely
to do so..... and you are DEFENDING that?

Incredible.....

It's a very cyclical business and no one feels sorry for Exxon when
they have stagnant growth, or even worse, when they fail to discover
enough new oil to replace what they sold. Unfortunately that is what
is happening. It is probably reasonable to assume that as their
exploration and acquisition costs go up, and as their reserves go
down, they will want a higher price for the product.

In the interest of full disclosure, I own stock in both Exxon and
Chevron-Texaco. Their annual reports make interesting reading and
the future for energy prices is not good.

Somehow, you are missing the reality that when Exxon loses money, the
stockholders are ****ed..... when Exxon continues to make record
profits in an otherwise miserable economy, they are sticking it to all
of the users of gasoline.... one way or the other, the entire
American population.... and to the entire American economy....

Gene, do you not think the drop in value of the dollar has had any affect on oil prices?

Is it a coincidence that oil and gold are both hitting new highs?

Has Obama had any affect on the value of the dollar?

Remember...without corporations, there would be no unions. Then where would all the liberal whining
come from?

Oh wait, I suppose even a socialist government *could* allow unions.

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 08:46:42 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 24/04/2011 6:54 AM, wf3h wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 08:36:48 -0400, Gene
wrote:


Sorry, you are too late..... the guys that already had all of that are
reaping all the profits...... re-read that thing about frugality....
proactiveness is number one.....

now they have to run to the GOP to get a tax break on the profits.
leona helmsley is a god to the GOP. 'only the little people pay taxes'

Nothing wrong with profits, after all you don't go to work for nothing
do you? So why should my capital go to work unless I make a profit?

profits are not bad. what we have in the US is profits for the few and
risk for the many

the right wing enables this by continuing to assert that the rich are
rich because, in the US, you're rich because you 'work hard' or you're
'smarter' or some other such bull****

the OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE shows this is WRONG. but the right continues to
believe this MYTH


No doubt, the Queen of Mean, Leona Helmsley was one mean bitch. But
will say his she left $4 billion into a charity trust.

and what was her use of money after she was dead? fine. let's get more
dead rich people. sounds like a great idea

It was here money and she should be able to dispose of it any way she
wants.

What do you plan to do with your left over "fortune", give it all to the
government? I sure hope so, they need it more than your children.


Yep, it was a democrat supporter that coined "We don't pay taxes. Only
the little people pay taxes.". Look it up, she loved Jimmy Carter,
democrat. Go figure.

So if you think Leona is GOP, please cite as I say BS to to. She was a
democrat.


which has ZIP to do with the fact the GOP has deregulated wall street
to the point that bankrupting the US is legal

What?

and the right wing supports this.

Put the bottle down and try again.

In article , payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

Wayne B wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 08:36:48 -0400, Gene
wrote:

uh no. it's speculators. they caused a similar run up under the white
guy who preceded the guy you hate because he's black
Damn speculators.

Why aren't more people doing it? Let's go halves on a tanker load and
resell it on EBAY. Anybody else want in on the deal? We're going to
need a dock, tank farm, distribution network, trucks, pipelines and a
whole sh*t load of permits. With some help from Wall Street we can
probably get 90 day financing.
Sorry, you are too late..... the guys that already had all of that are
reaping all the profits...... re-read that thing about frugality....
proactiveness is number one.....

Holding a big inventory of oil in your tank farm is not without risk
and it takes massive investments in time and money to build the
infrastructure. Not surprisingly, the people who make those
investments expect to earn a profit once in a while.



I haven't seen anyone suggesting earning a profit is illegal or immoral.
Questions arise when those profits become synonymous with rip-off, and
that's what the petrol industry is doing, ripping us off.

Where do you draw the line? When do profits become synonymous with rip-
off?

What happens if you find out that some other industry is not ripping you
off but is over the line in profits?

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 11:40:23 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 08:36:48 -0400, Gene
wrote:

uh no. it's speculators. they caused a similar run up under the white
guy who preceded the guy you hate because he's black

Damn speculators.

Why aren't more people doing it? Let's go halves on a tanker load and
resell it on EBAY. Anybody else want in on the deal? We're going to
need a dock, tank farm, distribution network, trucks, pipelines and a
whole sh*t load of permits. With some help from Wall Street we can
probably get 90 day financing.

Sorry, you are too late..... the guys that already had all of that are
reaping all the profits...... re-read that thing about frugality....
proactiveness is number one.....

Holding a big inventory of oil in your tank farm is not without risk
and it takes massive investments in time and money to build the
infrastructure. Not surprisingly, the people who make those
investments expect to earn a profit once in a while.

"A profit once in a while.....?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/business/01oil.html

8% Profit for 2010.
6.2% Profile for 2009.

Doesn't seem out of line to me.

http://www.grist.org/article/2010-04...ution-while-am
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/29/news...xxon/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...anies/profits/

The oil companies and speculators are almost single-handedly
preventing an economic recovery.... and they are being paid handsomely
to do so..... and you are DEFENDING that?

Incredible.....

It isn't incredible when you actually look at the numbers.

What you have to do is get past the increase of 53% at the beginning of
the first cite. If I made 5% profit and it increased by 53% the next
quarter then the next quarter I only made 7.5% profit.

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:25:30 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 12:41:35 -0400, Gene
wrote:

Holding a big inventory of oil in your tank farm is not without risk
and it takes massive investments in time and money to build the
infrastructure. Not surprisingly, the people who make those
investments expect to earn a profit once in a while.

"A profit once in a while.....?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/business/01oil.html
http://www.grist.org/article/2010-04...ution-while-am
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/29/news...xxon/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...anies/profits/

The oil companies and speculators are almost single-handedly
preventing an economic recovery.... and they are being paid handsomely
to do so..... and you are DEFENDING that?

Incredible.....

It's a very cyclical business and no one feels sorry for Exxon when
they have stagnant growth, or even worse, when they fail to discover
enough new oil to replace what they sold. Unfortunately that is what
is happening. It is probably reasonable to assume that as their
exploration and acquisition costs go up, and as their reserves go
down, they will want a higher price for the product.

In the interest of full disclosure, I own stock in both Exxon and
Chevron-Texaco. Their annual reports make interesting reading and
the future for energy prices is not good.

Somehow, you are missing the reality that when Exxon loses money, the
stockholders are ****ed..... when Exxon continues to make record
profits in an otherwise miserable economy, they are sticking it to all
of the users of gasoline.... one way or the other, the entire
American population.... and to the entire American economy....

Don't buy their products if you don't like the way they do business.

BAR wrote:
In article8tqdned7uv_i2ynQnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@earthlink .com, payer3389
@mypacks.net says...
Wayne B wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 08:36:48 -0400, Gene
wrote:

uh no. it's speculators. they caused a similar run up under the white
guy who preceded the guy you hate because he's black
Damn speculators.

Why aren't more people doing it? Let's go halves on a tanker load and
resell it on EBAY. Anybody else want in on the deal? We're going to
need a dock, tank farm, distribution network, trucks, pipelines and a
whole sh*t load of permits. With some help from Wall Street we can
probably get 90 day financing.
Sorry, you are too late..... the guys that already had all of that are
reaping all the profits...... re-read that thing about frugality....
proactiveness is number one.....
Holding a big inventory of oil in your tank farm is not without risk
and it takes massive investments in time and money to build the
infrastructure. Not surprisingly, the people who make those
investments expect to earn a profit once in a while.


I haven't seen anyone suggesting earning a profit is illegal or immoral.
Questions arise when those profits become synonymous with rip-off, and
that's what the petrol industry is doing, ripping us off.

Where do you draw the line? When do profits become synonymous with rip-
off?

In regard to these big oil companies, I believe we crossed that line
years ago.

Further, there are so many ways to cook the books, so to speak, in
oil company bookkeeping, there's really no legitimate way to determine
what their real "profits" are. That's true, of course, with many larger
corporations, and their abilities to avoid paying taxes.

I'm beginning to believe we ought to get out of the business of giving
away our oil and gas via cheap leases so the oil companies can turn
around and rape us. There are other ways to "produce" the goods so that
the ownership and profits are there to benefit the country and its
citizens.