On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:24:10 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

But wouldn't a boat of the size I mentioned be powered with a decent engine?
Seems like it would be, but I haven't really looked into it.

A 40 ft cruising sailboat would typically have a diesel in the 30 to
40 hp range. In flat water and no wind that's enough for 6 1/2 to 7
kts if the bottom is clean.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:24:10 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

But wouldn't a boat of the size I mentioned be powered with a decent
engine?
Seems like it would be, but I haven't really looked into it.

A 40 ft cruising sailboat would typically have a diesel in the 30 to
40 hp range. In flat water and no wind that's enough for 6 1/2 to 7
kts if the bottom is clean.


Ok.. I just guessed/remembered seeing 50hp. So, that's pretty close.

Seems like unless you're close to shore, you really don't need a lot of
engine power. Maybe in a storm, but wouldn't the concern be running the
engine without intake water or running out of fuel if you run it too long?
I'm mean that's why it's a sailboat... to sail.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 20:46:58 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Seems like unless you're close to shore, you really don't need a lot of
engine power. Maybe in a storm, but wouldn't the concern be running the
engine without intake water or running out of fuel if you run it too long?
I'm mean that's why it's a sailboat... to sail.

There are two times when you need power on a sailboat: Bad weather and
good weather.

Most cruising sailboats spend more than 90% of their time underway
with the engine running. Either the wind is from the wrong direction,
too weak or too strong.

On Apr 20, 2:31*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 20:46:58 -0700, "nom=de=plume"

wrote:
Seems like unless you're close to shore, you really don't need a lot of
engine power. Maybe in a storm, but wouldn't the concern be running the
engine without intake water or running out of fuel if you run it too long?
I'm mean that's why it's a sailboat... to sail.

There are two times when you need power on a sailboat: Bad weather and
good weather. *

Most cruising sailboats spend more than 90% of their time underway
with the engine running. *Either the wind is from the wrong direction,
too weak or too strong.

Not counting the fact of needing the engine to supply electrical power
to modern refrigeration (if used) and navionics. (Is that a word?)

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Apr 20, 2:31 am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 20:46:58 -0700, "nom=de=plume"

wrote:
Seems like unless you're close to shore, you really don't need a lot of
engine power. Maybe in a storm, but wouldn't the concern be running the
engine without intake water or running out of fuel if you run it too
long?
I'm mean that's why it's a sailboat... to sail.

There are two times when you need power on a sailboat: Bad weather and
good weather.

Most cruising sailboats spend more than 90% of their time underway
with the engine running. Either the wind is from the wrong direction,
too weak or too strong.

Not counting the fact of needing the engine to supply electrical power
to modern refrigeration (if used) and navionics. (Is that a word?)


I don't think this requires a powerful engine... seems like it shouldn't.
Don't people use generators that are separate from the main engine?

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Apr 20, 12:46*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message

...
On Apr 20, 2:31 am, Wayne.B wrote:





On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 20:46:58 -0700, "nom=de=plume"

wrote:
Seems like unless you're close to shore, you really don't need a lot of
engine power. Maybe in a storm, but wouldn't the concern be running the
engine without intake water or running out of fuel if you run it too
long?
I'm mean that's why it's a sailboat... to sail.

There are two times when you need power on a sailboat: Bad weather and
good weather.

Most cruising sailboats spend more than 90% of their time underway
with the engine running. Either the wind is from the wrong direction,
too weak or too strong.
Not counting the fact of needing the engine to supply electrical power
to modern refrigeration (if used) *and navionics. (Is that a word?)

I don't think this requires a powerful engine... seems like it shouldn't.
Don't people use generators that are separate from the main engine?

--
Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Some and probably most do, however like Wayne B has his trawler
outfitted, he uses a high amperage alternator which is powered by his
main engine[s] cabled to a considerable stack of batteries that in
turn power an inverter that converts 12 volt DC current into 120 volt
AC to power his electronics and refrigeration. He says it more cost
effective than running a generator.

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Apr 20, 12:46 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message

...
On Apr 20, 2:31 am, Wayne.B wrote:





On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 20:46:58 -0700, "nom=de=plume"

wrote:
Seems like unless you're close to shore, you really don't need a lot of
engine power. Maybe in a storm, but wouldn't the concern be running the
engine without intake water or running out of fuel if you run it too
long?
I'm mean that's why it's a sailboat... to sail.

There are two times when you need power on a sailboat: Bad weather and
good weather.

Most cruising sailboats spend more than 90% of their time underway
with the engine running. Either the wind is from the wrong direction,
too weak or too strong.
Not counting the fact of needing the engine to supply electrical power
to modern refrigeration (if used) and navionics. (Is that a word?)

I don't think this requires a powerful engine... seems like it shouldn't.
Don't people use generators that are separate from the main engine?

--
Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Some and probably most do, however like Wayne B has his trawler
outfitted, he uses a high amperage alternator which is powered by his
main engine[s] cabled to a considerable stack of batteries that in
turn power an inverter that converts 12 volt DC current into 120 volt
AC to power his electronics and refrigeration. He says it more cost
effective than running a generator.

Interesting. I've heard about high voltage electric engines for sailboats,
but I have a feeling that might be wildly expensive as a retrofit.



--
Nom=de=Plume

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 20:46:58 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Seems like unless you're close to shore, you really don't need a lot of
engine power. Maybe in a storm, but wouldn't the concern be running the
engine without intake water or running out of fuel if you run it too long?
I'm mean that's why it's a sailboat... to sail.

There are two times when you need power on a sailboat: Bad weather and
good weather.

Most cruising sailboats spend more than 90% of their time underway
with the engine running. Either the wind is from the wrong direction,
too weak or too strong.


I thought most sailboats spend more than 90% of their time sitting in a
berth or anchored.

Why would you need to run the engine offshore when there's lots of wind?
Seems like it wouldn't help that much. I can understand needing to get away
from a shoreline, but in the middle of an ocean? If it's really that bad,
wouldn't you want to try and slow the boat? I saw parachutes for this at the
boat show.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:45:18 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Most cruising sailboats spend more than 90% of their time underway
with the engine running. Either the wind is from the wrong direction,
too weak or too strong.


I thought most sailboats spend more than 90% of their time sitting in a
berth or anchored.

Why would you need to run the engine offshore when there's lots of wind?
Seems like it wouldn't help that much. I can understand needing to get away
from a shoreline, but in the middle of an ocean? If it's really that bad,
wouldn't you want to try and slow the boat? I saw parachutes for this at the
boat show.

The average boat does spend well over 90% of its time at the dock but
I'm talking about percentage of the time *underway*, i.e., not at the
dock or anchored. When trying to get from point A to point B (as
opposed to day sailing), the wind is frequently from an unfavoravle
direction, too weak, or too strong for the boat/crew to handle. As a
result the engine gets used a *lot* more than you might think.

It is also important to understand that the *average* cruising
sailboat does not cross oceans or run offshore for large distance.
Probably less than 1% do that kind of sailing although we see a lot of
them down here in the Caribbean. Many, but not all, of the ocean
crossers look like they've been through a war.

On a different topic, most cruising sailboats do not have a standalone
generator until well up into the mid 40 ft range. Instead they use
the main engine/alternator to charge batteries, etc. This in turn
causes a lot of extra wear and tear, sometimes leading to premature
engine failure. The stories about engine problems on sailboats go on
and on, and in my experience most are true. They are frequently
located in difficult, cramped areas which leads to a lot of deferred
maintenance. This is compounded by the mindset of many, but not all,
sailboat owners to leave well enough alone as long as the engine still
runs (benign neglect). It is rare to find a used sailboat where the
engine and associated drive train are still in top condition.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:45:18 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Most cruising sailboats spend more than 90% of their time underway
with the engine running. Either the wind is from the wrong direction,
too weak or too strong.


I thought most sailboats spend more than 90% of their time sitting in a
berth or anchored.

Why would you need to run the engine offshore when there's lots of wind?
Seems like it wouldn't help that much. I can understand needing to get
away
from a shoreline, but in the middle of an ocean? If it's really that bad,
wouldn't you want to try and slow the boat? I saw parachutes for this at
the
boat show.

The average boat does spend well over 90% of its time at the dock but
I'm talking about percentage of the time *underway*, i.e., not at the
dock or anchored. When trying to get from point A to point B (as
opposed to day sailing), the wind is frequently from an unfavoravle
direction, too weak, or too strong for the boat/crew to handle. As a
result the engine gets used a *lot* more than you might think.

Ok, but that didn't really answer my question... I imagine it does get used
quite a bit, but it doesn't seem logical to try and make progress against
high winds when sails are available. I suppose if they were damaged, then
sure.

It is also important to understand that the *average* cruising
sailboat does not cross oceans or run offshore for large distance.
Probably less than 1% do that kind of sailing although we see a lot of
them down here in the Caribbean. Many, but not all, of the ocean
crossers look like they've been through a war.

Right... I get that. I'm thinking most of our time away would be cruising in
the Sea of Cortez and perhaps down further in Mex.

On a different topic, most cruising sailboats do not have a standalone
generator until well up into the mid 40 ft range. Instead they use
the main engine/alternator to charge batteries, etc. This in turn
causes a lot of extra wear and tear, sometimes leading to premature
engine failure. The stories about engine problems on sailboats go on
and on, and in my experience most are true. They are frequently
located in difficult, cramped areas which leads to a lot of deferred
maintenance. This is compounded by the mindset of many, but not all,
sailboat owners to leave well enough alone as long as the engine still
runs (benign neglect). It is rare to find a used sailboat where the
engine and associated drive train are still in top condition.

We were looking at something similar to this boat:

http://tinyurl.com/yyoc997

It has a "genset" which I think is like a distinct generator. It's a 42'.

I think maintenance is certainly important. I take my car in regularly. Of
course, if you're away from civilization for a long period, you'd have to
check it yourself and be thorough. I suppose some things are not really
fixable without a boat shop, but that's true for cars too.

Why would charging a battery cause engine problems? We were talking to a
diesel mechanic a few weeks ago (interviewing him in case we found a boat
and wanted his opinion about an engine), and he said that diesels like to be
run hard, so I could see if you're just charging batteries without really
"using" the engine to move the boat that wouldn't be running it hard. But,
why couldn't you just put the thing in gear and push the boat while you
charge the batteries? That would seem to solve the problem.


--
Nom=de=Plume