On Apr 16, 3:59*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Does PBR count, I may have a yacht after all

you mean that stuff is still available? I rememebr back in the 70's
when they and Busch (Budweiser) were competing for #1 spot, then all
of a sudden PBR closed down the Peoria IL plant then they just sort of
disapeared. At least under that lable.

Absolutely but it isn't the "cheap beer" now

Sailboat engines, normally called "Auxiliary Engines" are sized to get
the boat to roughly 5 kts in calm water to enable her to get in and
out of port. Sailboats tend to have easily pushed hulls and need much
smaller engines than power boats like Trawlers. They are also
displacement hulls so will never go very fast anyway and the feeling
is that more power is wasted.
So, the 6.5 hp Yanmar 1 cylinder diesel (Model 1GM) did very well and
I even used ti to cruise all over the eastern Gulf of Mexico. One
Memorial day weekend, I motored a distance of 250 miles from near
Naples, FL back to Near St. Marks, FL with no wind at all and only
burned 12 gallons of diesel.
However, getting caught in 2 thunderstorms where that engine seemed
far too small to keep her bow pointed into the wind convinced me I
needed a larger engine so I bought a used Yanmar 2GM (2 cylinder 13
hp) and installed it. This significantly increased my top speed and
power in nasty conditions. She burns about 1/2 gal/hr at 5.5 kts and
maybe .7 gal/hr at 6.5 kts.
Sailboat diesels cost nearly as much as or more than outboards do. I
think you can still buy the Yanmar 1gm new for $2500 but a new 2GM
will cost about $5000, installation will be extra. My used engine was
taken out of a 30' racing boat because the owner wanted to use a tiny
trolling motor to get out of his slip to save weight for light wind.
I got it for $2000 and installed it myself.

"hk" wrote in message
...
On 4/16/10 1:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
m...
On 4/16/10 11:13 AM, Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed
down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th
Bahamas. They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in
Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. She had hated
it. He had liked it but her dislike was enough.
Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to
go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off.
For
some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back
within 4 months.
Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly
about how they will take off as soon as they retire. What if it
dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? That's a lot of
wasted effort and years.
Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with
far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? A smaller
boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more
time
for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time.
I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and
we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is
inversely proportional to its size.


I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it.
There must be a few.

I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can
afford.
We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into
hock,
we
could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two
of
us
are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two
are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone.

I think it would be quite reasonable to expect the boat would mostly
sit
at the dock for a year, since we're not planning on leaving before
that.
Even if we sailed every weeked (which is highly unrealistic - more
like
twice a month over the course of the year), that would still have it
mostly sitting. The other three live down that way, so they'd be much
more
likely than I to go. In fact, assuming all goes as planned, I would
likely
be sailing on school boats, since I'm learning.

--
Nom=de=Plume

How many miles would the sailboat be moored from your residence?




Yes, *that* certainly can be a reason not to use the boat as often as
you
like.

I doubt I'd be a candidate for cruising these days. I like boating, but
for a day or for a day or two at a time. But that's just me. I know some
"cruisers" who are really into it. But...if you buy a large boat without
first having cruised, well, you're really buying a pig in a poke.


--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym


Besides renting for a cruising vacation (like Sunsail or Moorings) how
would
one cruise on it before buying? I'm assuming you meant that...




By chartering or by being a guest...

--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym


I like the guest idea... did that with friends in Santa Cruz, but only for a
weekend. I think we're going to do some sort of cruise in Baja via a rental
company.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Apr 16, 3:19*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 16, 3:59*pm, wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Does PBR count, I may have a yacht after all

you mean that stuff is still available? I rememebr back in the 70's
when they and Busch (Budweiser) were competing for #1 spot, then all
of a sudden PBR closed down the Peoria IL plant then they just sort of
disapeared. At least under that lable.

Absolutely but it isn't the "cheap beer" now

Sailboat engines, normally called "Auxiliary Engines" are sized to get
the boat to roughly 5 kts in calm water to enable her to get in and
out of port. *Sailboats tend to have easily pushed hulls and need much
smaller engines than power boats like Trawlers. *They are also
displacement hulls so will never go very fast anyway and the feeling
is that more power is wasted.
So, the 6.5 hp Yanmar 1 cylinder diesel (Model 1GM) did very well and
I even used ti to cruise all over the eastern Gulf of Mexico. *One
Memorial day weekend, I motored a distance of 250 miles from near
Naples, FL back to Near St. Marks, FL with no wind at all and only
burned 12 gallons of diesel.
However, getting caught in 2 thunderstorms where that engine seemed
far too small to keep her bow pointed into the wind convinced me I
needed a larger engine so I bought a used Yanmar 2GM (2 cylinder 13
hp) and installed it. *This significantly increased my top speed and
power in nasty conditions. *She burns about 1/2 gal/hr at 5.5 kts and
maybe .7 gal/hr at 6.5 kts.
Sailboat diesels cost nearly as much as or more than outboards do. *I
think you can still buy the Yanmar 1gm new for $2500 but a new 2GM
will cost about $5000, installation will be extra. *My used engine was
taken out of a 30' racing boat because the owner wanted to use a tiny
trolling motor to get out of his slip to save weight for light wind.
I got it for $2000 and installed it myself.

It
's interesting that you explained that. I've posted about something in
the past,t hat over at lake carlyle, there's some neat sail boats a
couple 35'rs too. And most have no sails. But on weekends you'll see
people loading up on fri. night, and motoring their way out into the
lake, and stay out there till Sunday night. Next weekend, do it again!

Some with kicker engines and some totally inboard, and not moving
fast, but moving steady. I suppose you don't have to sail a sail boat.

On Apr 16, 3:31*pm, Tim wrote:
On Apr 16, 3:19*pm, Frogwatch wrote:



On Apr 16, 3:59*pm, wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Does PBR count, I may have a yacht after all

you mean that stuff is still available? I rememebr back in the 70's
when they and Busch (Budweiser) were competing for #1 spot, then all
of a sudden PBR closed down the Peoria IL plant then they just sort of
disapeared. At least under that lable.

Absolutely but it isn't the "cheap beer" now

Sailboat engines, normally called "Auxiliary Engines" are sized to get
the boat to roughly 5 kts in calm water to enable her to get in and
out of port. *Sailboats tend to have easily pushed hulls and need much
smaller engines than power boats like Trawlers. *They are also
displacement hulls so will never go very fast anyway and the feeling
is that more power is wasted.
So, the 6.5 hp Yanmar 1 cylinder diesel (Model 1GM) did very well and
I even used ti to cruise all over the eastern Gulf of Mexico. *One
Memorial day weekend, I motored a distance of 250 miles from near
Naples, FL back to Near St. Marks, FL with no wind at all and only
burned 12 gallons of diesel.
However, getting caught in 2 thunderstorms where that engine seemed
far too small to keep her bow pointed into the wind convinced me I
needed a larger engine so I bought a used Yanmar 2GM (2 cylinder 13
hp) and installed it. *This significantly increased my top speed and
power in nasty conditions. *She burns about 1/2 gal/hr at 5.5 kts and
maybe .7 gal/hr at 6.5 kts.
Sailboat diesels cost nearly as much as or more than outboards do. *I
think you can still buy the Yanmar 1gm new for $2500 but a new 2GM
will cost about $5000, installation will be extra. *My used engine was
taken out of a 30' racing boat because the owner wanted to use a tiny
trolling motor to get out of his slip to save weight for light wind.
I got it for $2000 and installed it myself.

It
's interesting that you explained that. I've posted about something in
the past,t hat over at lake carlyle, there's some neat sail boats *a
couple 35'rs too. And most have no sails. But on weekends you'll see
people loading up on fri. night, and motoring their way out into the
lake, and stay out there till Sunday night. Next weekend, do it again!

*Some with kicker engines and some totally inboard, and not moving
fast, but moving steady. I suppose you don't have to sail a sail boat.

The reality is that most sailing cruising people spend over 50% of
their time motoring. This is why I am now a fan of the Troller/sail
boat where an engine is the primary propulsion and the sails are
secondary. This concept is best shown in the "Diesel Duck" line by
Buller.

Tim wrote:
On Apr 16, 10:31 am, wrote:

On Apr 16, 11:13 am, "Don wrote:






wrote in message


...


wrote in message
....

I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed
down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th
Bahamas. They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in
Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. She had hated
it. He had liked it but her dislike was enough.
Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to
go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. For
some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back
within 4 months.
Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly
about how they will take off as soon as they retire. What if it
dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? That's a lot of
wasted effort and years.
Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with
far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? A smaller
boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time
for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time.
I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and
we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is
inversely proportional to its size.


I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it..
There must be a few.


I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can afford.
We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into hock, we
could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two of us
are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two
are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone.


I think it would be quite reasonable to expect the boat would mostly sit
at the dock for a year, since we're not planning on leaving before that.
Even if we sailed every weeked (which is highly unrealistic - more like
twice a month over the course of the year), that would still have it
mostly sitting. The other three live down that way, so they'd be much more
likely than I to go. In fact, assuming all goes as planned, I would likely
be sailing on school boats, since I'm learning.


--
Nom=de=Plume


How many miles would the sailboat be moored from your residence?

Even if you love sailing, the harsh reality is that you'll get more
use from a power boat. Unless you are cruising full time, the cost of
fuel is small in relation to the cost of your "lost" hours in moving
the boat to a new cruising place.
Once I realized this, I took the old 6.5 hp diesel out of my boat that
only pushed her at 4.5 kts and replaced it with a 13 hp one that
pushed her at over 6.3 kts. It doesn't sound like a big diff but it
makes a huge difference in getting places.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

6.5 hp diesel? What make?

kubota? Yannmar? Lombardini? I'm surprised that 6.5 could push
anything of that size. other than a small riding mower.

They have a lot of torque and a rather large prop.

nom=de=plume wrote:

But wouldn't a boat of the size I mentioned be powered with a decent engine?
Seems like it would be, but I haven't really looked into it.


You have a _lot_ of homework ahead of you.

On Apr 16, 6:59*pm, Larry wrote:
nom=de=plume wrote:

But wouldn't a boat of the size I mentioned be powered with a decent engine?
Seems like it would be, but I haven't really looked into it.

You have a _lot_ of homework ahead of you.

Getting the right prop is a major deal. Major controversy over fixed
2 blade fixed or 3 blade fixed because the 3 blade fixed hurts sailing
performance about 1/2 kt but the 3 blade gives better motoring
performance. There is a company that makes an oversize plastic
composite prop called PerfectPitch that makes up for this but they are
sorta unknown.
Then, there are the folding props..................

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 16, 6:59 pm, Larry wrote:
nom=de=plume wrote:

But wouldn't a boat of the size I mentioned be powered with a decent
engine?
Seems like it would be, but I haven't really looked into it.

You have a _lot_ of homework ahead of you.

Getting the right prop is a major deal. Major controversy over fixed
2 blade fixed or 3 blade fixed because the 3 blade fixed hurts sailing
performance about 1/2 kt but the 3 blade gives better motoring
performance. There is a company that makes an oversize plastic
composite prop called PerfectPitch that makes up for this but they are
sorta unknown.
Then, there are the folding props..................


Larry is a jerk. In any case, I ask again... wouldn't a newer boat in the
size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly?

--
Nom=de=Plume

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

.. wouldn't a newer boat in the
size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly?

This is what Froggy is saying "properly" depends on which side of the
compromise you want to come down on. You can have a fast power boat
with sails or a fast sailboat with a motor but both at the same time
is hard to do.


My understanding is that the engine on a cruising type boat would be able to
bring the boat to "hull" speed. You can't really go faster than that, so I
suppose the appropriate engine would be one that could do that (or nearly
so)? 1.34 x sq. rt of water line? So, assuming there's overhang on a 42'
boat, say the water line is 40' the max speed would be about 8.5. Of course,
if it were not pushing all the water, skimming, then you could go faster.

--
Nom=de=Plume

In article ,
says...

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

.. wouldn't a newer boat in the
size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly?

This is what Froggy is saying "properly" depends on which side of the
compromise you want to come down on. You can have a fast power boat
with sails or a fast sailboat with a motor but both at the same time
is hard to do.


My understanding is that the engine on a cruising type boat would be able to
bring the boat to "hull" speed. You can't really go faster than that, so I
suppose the appropriate engine would be one that could do that (or nearly
so)? 1.34 x sq. rt of water line? So, assuming there's overhang on a 42'
boat, say the water line is 40' the max speed would be about 8.5. Of course,
if it were not pushing all the water, skimming, then you could go faster.

They call "skimming" "planing" here.
And you are correct. But many hull types are incapable of planing.

Peter