On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:16:54 -0400, wrote:



Nobody has said, or even said they will limit, what the insurance
companies can charge for all of these new liabilities.

agreed. we should just let people die. **** 'em


The real
showdown will come when our insurance options and prices show up this
fall. The CEO of Caterpillar is estimating this will cost his company
$100 million in additional health care insurance costs. That will get
passed on to the employees, one way or another..

i love it. as if we're not already paying for these folks. you people
are in-****ing-credibly greedy.


Where is all of the extra medical capacity going to come from to deal
with 31 million new patients?
Supply and demand says the cost of providing care will go up.

actually not. lost time and wages from people who can't get treatment?
scales of efficiency? etc etc...

the right thinks 31M people should just shut the **** up and die.

after all, they're pro life

On 3/23/10 8:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:20:33 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

For the righties... which of these things do you not like?

Provisions of the health care overhaul that will take place in 2010:

90 days after enactment - Provide immediate access to high-risk pools for
people with no insurance because of pre-existing conditions.
180 days after enactment - Bar insurers from denying people coverage when
they get sick.
180 days after enactment - Bar insurers from denying coverage to children
with pre-existing conditions.
180 days after enactment - Bar insurers from imposing lifetime caps on
coverage.
180 days after enactment - Require insurers to allow people to stay on their
parents' policies until they turn 26.
this year - Provide a $250 rebade to Medicare prescription drug
beneficiaries whose initial benefits have run out.


Nobody has said, or even said they will limit, what the insurance
companies can charge for all of these new liabilities. The real
showdown will come when our insurance options and prices show up this
fall. The CEO of Caterpillar is estimating this will cost his company
$100 million in additional health care insurance costs. That will get
passed on to the employees, one way or another..

Where is all of the extra medical capacity going to come from to deal
with 31 million new patients?
Supply and demand says the cost of providing care will go up.




The obvious answer is to get insurance companies out of the basic health
insurance business, and limit them to providing supplemental packages
only. The private, for-profit health insurers add nothing to the mix but
their profits.

Employees already are paying for their health insurance...it's just
buried in their comp package.

I know exactly what my health insurance costs, because the premiums come
out of my pocket, as they do for most all who are members of
construction unions. Our principal local officers and business agents
negotiate an hourly rate, and *we* decide what portion of that goes into
"pay" and what goes into health and welfare.

Where do you get the idea there will be 31 million new patients?

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:20:33 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

For the righties... which of these things do you not like?

Provisions of the health care overhaul that will take place in 2010:

90 days after enactment - Provide immediate access to high-risk pools for
people with no insurance because of pre-existing conditions.
180 days after enactment - Bar insurers from denying people coverage when
they get sick.
180 days after enactment - Bar insurers from denying coverage to children
with pre-existing conditions.
180 days after enactment - Bar insurers from imposing lifetime caps on
coverage.
180 days after enactment - Require insurers to allow people to stay on
their
parents' policies until they turn 26.
this year - Provide a $250 rebade to Medicare prescription drug
beneficiaries whose initial benefits have run out.


Nobody has said, or even said they will limit, what the insurance
companies can charge for all of these new liabilities. The real
showdown will come when our insurance options and prices show up this
fall. The CEO of Caterpillar is estimating this will cost his company
$100 million in additional health care insurance costs. That will get
passed on to the employees, one way or another..

Insurance companies are currently raising prices... did you miss that? It's
a fix that's coming.

I doubt it. His costs are skyrocketting now. Every reputable economist, not
to mention the CBO, predicts savings.



Where is all of the extra medical capacity going to come from to deal
with 31 million new patients?
Supply and demand says the cost of providing care will go up.

I guess they don't make doctors anymore. How sad. Hospitals seem to think
they'll be fine.


--
Nom=de=Plume

wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:38:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Nobody has said, or even said they will limit, what the insurance
companies can charge for all of these new liabilities. The real
showdown will come when our insurance options and prices show up this
fall. The CEO of Caterpillar is estimating this will cost his company
$100 million in additional health care insurance costs. That will get
passed on to the employees, one way or another..
Insurance companies are currently raising prices... did you miss that? It's
a fix that's coming.

I doubt it. His costs are skyrocketting now. Every reputable economist, not
to mention the CBO, predicts savings.


We don't have to wait long to see. What do you think "open season"
will look like this year?


We'll see. I think the sleazy Dems have an ace up their sleeve with
that Health Insurance Rate Authority that 'Bama tried to get included
in the Senate Bill. The parliamentarian kicked it out of the
reconciliation process - Byrd rule - so it won't get passed in the
current bill.
That Authority legislation gives a Fed panel the ability to watch for
excessive rate increases and even roll them back and make the insurers
rebate excess increases to policyholders.
I got a bad feeling that if the insurers try to jack up rates the Dems
will bring the Health Insurance Rate Authority legislation to the floor
for a vote, and make Republicans like you and me look real bad if our
boys vote against passing it.
They're sleazy enough to try fooling the folks that rate increases ain't
a good thing.
The sumbitches could end up with an even bigger majority!
I'm warning my Tea Party friends not to underestimate the skulduggery
Dems are capable of to get their way.
I shouldn't be writing this. Maybe they haven't even thought about it.
Doubt they read this though. Best to warn those on our side it's a
possibility and we should be planning counter-actions.
Hopefully the insurers will hold off on the increases until we get the
majority back, then they can do whatever the hell they want.
They're damn fine contributors.
Don't worry, there are plenty of battles left, and we will win the war.
We'll keep those who don't deserve it from getting good health care.

Jim - A righteous man, secure in his convictions.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:09:34 -0500, Jim wrote:

We don't have to wait long to see. What do you think "open season"
will look like this year?


We'll see. I think the sleazy Dems have an ace up their sleeve with
that Health Insurance Rate Authority that 'Bama tried to get included
in the Senate Bill. The parliamentarian kicked it out of the
reconciliation process - Byrd rule - so it won't get passed in the
current bill.

The insurance companies will not have much trouble justifying their
rate increases., they just have to present the underwriter's report
about the extra cost of insuring "kids" until they are 26, picking up
"preexisting conditions" and removing caps.
It is pure dollars and cents. There ain't no free lunch.


"Jim" is an idiot. The ins. companies need more regulation. It's not a free
lunch, but most people are willing to pay more for actually getting
something of value. It's not "pure dollars and cents."

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 01:51:15 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:34:53 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:09:34 -0500, Jim wrote:

We don't have to wait long to see. What do you think "open season"
will look like this year?


We'll see. I think the sleazy Dems have an ace up their sleeve with
that Health Insurance Rate Authority that 'Bama tried to get included
in the Senate Bill. The parliamentarian kicked it out of the
reconciliation process - Byrd rule - so it won't get passed in the
current bill.

The insurance companies will not have much trouble justifying their
rate increases., they just have to present the underwriter's report
about the extra cost of insuring "kids" until they are 26, picking up
"preexisting conditions" and removing caps.
It is pure dollars and cents. There ain't no free lunch.


"Jim" is an idiot. The ins. companies need more regulation. It's not a free
lunch, but most people are willing to pay more for actually getting
something of value. It's not "pure dollars and cents."


The prices are determined by the actuarial studies by the underwriters
and that is pure dollars and cents.
They increased the insurance company exposure to risk and the
insurance company is going to recover that in higher premiums.
Actually when you are talking about caps and preexisting conditions it
is not really risk at all, the worst possible scenario is already true
and the insurance company is just a medical service broker, paying the
bill, tacking on administrative cost and profit and billing the other
customers accordingly. In a macro sense this is a very simple
business. When outlay goes up, income must go up.

There's a few factors in there worth considering. Among them, the
insurance companies are dividing 30 million new customers. There's
upside in greater volume. Many of those new customers will be younger
since they're more likely to forego insurance, pushing the median age
lower and lowering actuarial risk. Outlay/customer is likely to go
down.

The real savings for us, that is small participants, is when they
institute the exchange. That'll allow small companies like mine to
join much larger pools.

My hope is that they start looking at the business of health insurance
and establish a fair margin for their role. Same for the sheisters on
Wall Street. Some of those jerks need to be strung up by their balls
until they realize what pigs they are. Astounding how isolated and
enttiled they've become. What, leaching off poor suckers isn't good
business?

Neither provide more than transactional support. They don't make
anything and they don't add value. They skim.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 01:17:37 -0700, jps wrote:

The prices are determined by the actuarial studies by the underwriters
and that is pure dollars and cents.
They increased the insurance company exposure to risk and the
insurance company is going to recover that in higher premiums.
Actually when you are talking about caps and preexisting conditions it
is not really risk at all, the worst possible scenario is already true
and the insurance company is just a medical service broker, paying the
bill, tacking on administrative cost and profit and billing the other
customers accordingly. In a macro sense this is a very simple
business. When outlay goes up, income must go up.

There's a few factors in there worth considering. Among them, the
insurance companies are dividing 30 million new customers. There's
upside in greater volume. Many of those new customers will be younger
since they're more likely to forego insurance, pushing the median age
lower and lowering actuarial risk. Outlay/customer is likely to go
down.

Since a significant number of these new "young" customers will be on
their parent's policies they do not represent any actual new revenue.
unless the parent's rate goes up.

The real savings for us, that is small participants, is when they
institute the exchange. That'll allow small companies like mine to
join much larger pools.

Let's see how that works in reality.

Well, isn't that almost always the case?

--
Nom=de=Plume

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:34:53 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:09:34 -0500, Jim wrote:

We don't have to wait long to see. What do you think "open season"
will look like this year?


We'll see. I think the sleazy Dems have an ace up their sleeve with
that Health Insurance Rate Authority that 'Bama tried to get included
in the Senate Bill. The parliamentarian kicked it out of the
reconciliation process - Byrd rule - so it won't get passed in the
current bill.

The insurance companies will not have much trouble justifying their
rate increases., they just have to present the underwriter's report
about the extra cost of insuring "kids" until they are 26, picking up
"preexisting conditions" and removing caps.
It is pure dollars and cents. There ain't no free lunch.


"Jim" is an idiot. The ins. companies need more regulation. It's not a free
lunch, but most people are willing to pay more for actually getting
something of value. It's not "pure dollars and cents."


The prices are determined by the actuarial studies by the underwriters
and that is pure dollars and cents.
They increased the insurance company exposure to risk and the
insurance company is going to recover that in higher premiums.
Actually when you are talking about caps and preexisting conditions it
is not really risk at all, the worst possible scenario is already true
and the insurance company is just a medical service broker, paying the
bill, tacking on administrative cost and profit and billing the other
customers accordingly. In a macro sense this is a very simple
business. When outlay goes up, income must go up.

Mumbo Jumbo really. Fact: All kids won't be covered this year
Fact: Insurance company rates are not controlled at all in this bill.
Fact: Prescriptions and pre-existing conditions will not be all covered
this year and far into the life of the bill if ever.
Fact: The Pharmas got a great big bone with the extention of generic
protections to 12 years so millions won't have access to the best
medicines and will suffer and die.
Fact: All illegal aliens will be covered as soon as congress passes a
"comprehensive" (amnesty) immigration act.
Fact: You can't add 35 million people to the medical roles and expect
them to keep up.
Fact: You can't take billions from doctors and expect better service.
Fact: You can't strip money from seniors and expect them to get better
care.
Fact: You can't save 38 billion by spending 10 trillion. Maybe they can
call it money "saved or counted" (created snerk
..... The list goes on...

Scotty

--
For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

"I am Tosk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:34:53 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:09:34 -0500, Jim wrote:

We don't have to wait long to see. What do you think "open season"
will look like this year?


We'll see. I think the sleazy Dems have an ace up their sleeve with
that Health Insurance Rate Authority that 'Bama tried to get included
in the Senate Bill. The parliamentarian kicked it out of the
reconciliation process - Byrd rule - so it won't get passed in the
current bill.

The insurance companies will not have much trouble justifying their
rate increases., they just have to present the underwriter's report
about the extra cost of insuring "kids" until they are 26, picking up
"preexisting conditions" and removing caps.
It is pure dollars and cents. There ain't no free lunch.


"Jim" is an idiot. The ins. companies need more regulation. It's not a
free
lunch, but most people are willing to pay more for actually getting
something of value. It's not "pure dollars and cents."


The prices are determined by the actuarial studies by the underwriters
and that is pure dollars and cents.
They increased the insurance company exposure to risk and the
insurance company is going to recover that in higher premiums.
Actually when you are talking about caps and preexisting conditions it
is not really risk at all, the worst possible scenario is already true
and the insurance company is just a medical service broker, paying the
bill, tacking on administrative cost and profit and billing the other
customers accordingly. In a macro sense this is a very simple
business. When outlay goes up, income must go up.

Mumbo Jumbo really. Fact: All kids won't be covered this year
Fact: Insurance company rates are not controlled at all in this bill.
Fact: Prescriptions and pre-existing conditions will not be all covered
this year and far into the life of the bill if ever.
Fact: The Pharmas got a great big bone with the extention of generic
protections to 12 years so millions won't have access to the best
medicines and will suffer and die.
Fact: All illegal aliens will be covered as soon as congress passes a
"comprehensive" (amnesty) immigration act.
Fact: You can't add 35 million people to the medical roles and expect
them to keep up.
Fact: You can't take billions from doctors and expect better service.
Fact: You can't strip money from seniors and expect them to get better
care.
Fact: You can't save 38 billion by spending 10 trillion. Maybe they can
call it money "saved or counted" (created snerk
.... The list goes on...

Scotty

--
For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v


Fact: You don't know your facts.


--
Nom=de=Plume

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 10:06:49 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:



Mumbo Jumbo really. Fact: All kids won't be covered this year
Fact: Insurance company rates are not controlled at all in this bill.

squeezed out on a technicality...due to the GOP screwing the middle
class

Fact: Prescriptions and pre-existing conditions will not be all covered
this year and far into the life of the bill if ever.
Fact: The Pharmas got a great big bone with the extention of generic
protections to 12 years so millions won't have access to the best
medicines and will suffer and die.

uh what? they get health insurance including drug coverage and this
means they wont get coverage?

do you read what you write?

Fact: All illegal aliens will be covered as soon as congress passes a
"comprehensive" (amnesty) immigration act.

uh no. the bill specifically excludes this

Fact: You can't add 35 million people to the medical roles and expect
them to keep up.

sure you can. you just want them to die.

Fact: You can't take billions from doctors and expect better service.

actually they got a raise

Fact: You can't strip money from seniors and expect them to get better
care.

we're not going to get better anyhow. that's what happens when we get
old

Fact: You can't save 38 billion by spending 10 trillion. Maybe they can
call it money "saved or counted" (created snerk
.... The list goes on...

Scotty

and you can't control healthcare by letting insurance companies do
double digit increases with no alternatives for american citizens.

if the GOP hadn't screwed with the process, alot of these problems
could have been addressed

but they're social darwinists