On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:43:26 -0500, Rob wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene
wrote:


You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police would
for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

Let point to why I think you are wrong:

"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's
property without that person's freely-given consent."

Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft!

The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area.

Rob

No it wasn't. The area it was in was not fenced or locked. It was
behind the back row of a strip mall. That was one of my worries, that
the boat could be pilfered.

I wouldn't have had to break into anything to get it.
--

John H

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:41:12 -0500, Rob wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:07 -0500, wrote:

John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.

In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under
bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long.

Rob

You Sooooooooo don't get it. While they held the boat, John had to sue
for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a
claim on HIS boat.....

Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing"
his own property, I think not....

Wrong - unless the law varies by state (I don't believe it does). I've
witnessed this first-hand. There is a designated time frame where the
owners of property that is in for repair can claim it, and take it, with
proper documentation.

Rob

I had the title with me, just in case.
--

John H

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:36:24 -0500, Rob wrote:

Don White wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:51:38 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:40:21 -0500, John
wrote:


Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.

Sounds like they're goners anyway.
Looks like you were just in time. Good move.
Better see if they actually winterized your boat.

--Vic

I'm not taking any chances. I took it to another Yamaha guy a little
further down the road, Stafford Marine. Told them what happened. Told
them to winterize it, even if it had already been done.

I hadn't given the Dumfries folks any money, so I'm not out anything.
It just takes an extra half-hour of driving to get to this place. But,
that's OK.
--

John H

Read that manual and winterize it yourself.......
oh wait...you don't read manuals.



He has a big boy outboard that they don't sell at Toys R Us.

Rob

And a *new* big boy outboard. Once the warranty has expired, *then*
I'll start doing this stuff myself.

Up until then I figure I'll help out the local marina economy. When
you've got all the money I have (~snerk~), a hundred bucks once a year
isn't going to hurt anything!
--

John H

Yup...Uncle Sam has always taken good care of you and what thanks does he
receive in return???

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:45:38 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"I am Tosk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Gene" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of
town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's
16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell
is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the
hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again
on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to
call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a
fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter
to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as
far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I
get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff
loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone
replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I
ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I
want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat
with
the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows
what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's
errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....
--
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who
are
enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
-Thomas Sowell

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm

Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta


No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while
they
sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc.

Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.

Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of
action available to him.

Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
"stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.

Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......

Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to
take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all.


Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is implied
by said lock.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Just state they said to come get your boat. And since the business has a
phone disconnected, and no one was available during normal business hours or
could be contacted, I did what they said to do. Picked up my boat. They
would have to prove you were not told to pick up your own boat. The DA's
have enough cases, they do not want to screw around with this crap. And
also if in Calif, they have to release people from jail to reduce numbers
and cost. You think the DA is going to spend any time or money on a case
like this?


Damn. I can't believe y'all stayed up until 1:45 AM arguing
(discussing) my boat problems.

If I'd been here, I could have corrected a couple assumptions. I would
not have 'broken and entered' anyplace. The boat was accessible to the
public, if the public drove behind the shop. No gate, no chain, no
nothing. The only thing preventing the removal of the boat was a
Master padlock on the hitch, which I was about to cut.

I suppose, if a cop had come by, he could have hassled me. That's why
I took the title of the boat with me, and the extra set of keys. I
don't think the cop would have said much.

I find it hard to believe that *anyone* would waste time discussing
this issue with the Plum. WAFJ!


--

John H

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:39:20 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
.. .
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H

Good on you for getting your boat back.
Bad on you for taking yourself so damn long.
You're lucky you got it back at all, as in that much time, it could have
floated out of there, never to be seen again.
A good deed to those people who were losing their business, yet had enough
decency not to sell your boat for parts to the first scavenger who came
along.

Steve


I'm just a nice guy who believes in supporting the local economy.
--

John H

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:40:27 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Don White" wrote


Read that manual and winterize it yourself.......
oh wait...you don't read manuals.

Probably doesn't have the thirty minutes it takes to "winterize".

Steve


Explained above, although the little guy has no business commenting on
it.

He should be spending his time in a worthwhile engagement, like this:

http://tinyurl.com/o42at

Maybe he could get the Plum to join him.
--

John H

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:43:26 -0500, Rob wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene
wrote:


You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police
would
for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

Let point to why I think you are wrong:

"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's
property without that person's freely-given consent."

Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft!

The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area.

Rob

No it wasn't. The area it was in was not fenced or locked. It was
behind the back row of a strip mall. That was one of my worries, that
the boat could be pilfered.

I wouldn't have had to break into anything to get it.
--

John H

Well this is a different scenario that we were led to believe.
In this case I would have gone in and recovered my property too...assuming
it was on 'common tenant ground' behind a mall.
I'd claim they abandoned it.

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"JustWaitAFrekinMinute!" wrote in
message
...
On Nov 24, 11:39 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"I am Tosk" wrote in
...





In article ,
says...

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Gene" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and
engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out
of
town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still
had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they
should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did
this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday,
that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the
hell
is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the
hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and
again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a
recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to
call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a
fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things
out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the
matter
to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that
as
far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to
me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I
get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff
loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone
replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I
ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him
I
want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H

It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat
with
the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged
with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God
knows
what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY
FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's
errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at
best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....
--
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people
who
are
enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
-Thomas Sowell

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm

Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta

No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while
they
sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass,
etc.

Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.

Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of
action available to him.

Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
"stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.

Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......

Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to
take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all.

Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is
implied by
said lock.

--
Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Uh, what lock?

The lock on the hitch I believe.



--
Nom=de=Plume


Tell them it was your lock and no spare key.


So.. Kalif Swill advocates lying to the police.
That's a good way to get yourself shoved down a staircase....right Snotty?

On 11/25/09 7:52 AM, Don White wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:43:26 -0500, wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene
wrote:


You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police
would
for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

Let point to why I think you are wrong:

"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's
property without that person's freely-given consent."

Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft!

The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area.

Rob

No it wasn't. The area it was in was not fenced or locked. It was
behind the back row of a strip mall. That was one of my worries, that
the boat could be pilfered.

I wouldn't have had to break into anything to get it.
--

John H

Well this is a different scenario that we were led to believe.
In this case I would have gone in and recovered my property too...assuming
it was on 'common tenant ground' behind a mall.
I'd claim they abandoned it.




So...there's no chance herring might be arrested? Too bad.



--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Gene" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H

It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with
the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....
--
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are
enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
-Thomas Sowell

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm

Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta

No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while they
sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc.
Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.

Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of
action available to him.

Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
"stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.

Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......

Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to
take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all.

The plum's advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.