Don White wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:51:38 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:40:21 -0500, John
wrote:


Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.

Sounds like they're goners anyway.
Looks like you were just in time. Good move.
Better see if they actually winterized your boat.

--Vic

I'm not taking any chances. I took it to another Yamaha guy a little
further down the road, Stafford Marine. Told them what happened. Told
them to winterize it, even if it had already been done.

I hadn't given the Dumfries folks any money, so I'm not out anything.
It just takes an extra half-hour of driving to get to this place. But,
that's OK.
--

John H

Read that manual and winterize it yourself.......
oh wait...you don't read manuals.



He has a big boy outboard that they don't sell at Toys R Us.

Rob

I am Tosk wrote:
In ,
om says...

On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.

Have you contacted the local news and papers. This sounds like something
that needs to be brought to the attention of the locals. If they are
going under (sounds like it), folks should know like you to go get their
boats, or any other assets they people are holding...

If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to
the owners. If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are
out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job. If
they have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy
court can attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust.

Rob - Been there, different circumstances.

John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.

In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under
bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long.

Rob

"Gene" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with
the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....
--
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are
enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
-Thomas Sowell

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm

Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta


No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while they
sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc.


--
Nom=de=Plume

"John H" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with
the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.
--

John H


You'd be wrong. If you remove something from someone else's property without
their permission, you're subject to arrest. This nine-tenths business gets a
lot of people in trouble who wouldn't have been if they just had some
patience.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Rob" wrote in message
...
John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with
the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows
what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.

In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under bankruptcy
law, they couldn't keep it for too long.

Rob


Probably correct, although I'm not super familiar with bankruptcy law. It's
better to err on the side of the law than risk bad things.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Gene" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:07 -0500, Rob wrote:

John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of
town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell
is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as
far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff
loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone
replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I
want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat
with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows
what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.

In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under
bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long.

Rob

You Sooooooooo don't get it. While they held the boat, John had to sue
for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a
claim on HIS boat.....

Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing"
his own property, I think not....


You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police would
for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:45:42 -0500, wrote:

If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to
the owners.

"Can" be, but don't hold your breath. Get a lawyer... spend $$$$$$$$$
See Item 3 ===

If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are
out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job.

Oh, YEAH.... ever the optimist. ASSUMING (all or any of) the parts
can be found.

If they have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy
court can attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust.

Item 3===
Which is a wonderful ploy if they are trying to raid YOUR pockets to
pay THEIR encumbrances... WHETHER OR NOT anything has actually been
accomplished!

I agree on #3 - they will nickle and dime every penny they can get for
"expenses". Personal property that is in for repair is always released
prior to the auction and final "tally" if it's removed in the allowed
time frame.

Rob

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:07 -0500, wrote:

John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.

In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under
bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long.

Rob

You Sooooooooo don't get it. While they held the boat, John had to sue
for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a
claim on HIS boat.....

Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing"
his own property, I think not....

Wrong - unless the law varies by state (I don't believe it does). I've
witnessed this first-hand. There is a designated time frame where the
owners of property that is in for repair can claim it, and take it, with
proper documentation.

Rob

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:10:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
news
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with
the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.
--

John H


You'd be wrong. If you remove something from someone else's property without
their permission, you're subject to arrest.

Not when that "something" is YOUR property.....

This nine-tenths business gets a
lot of people in trouble who wouldn't have been if they just had some
patience.

Bull$hit... patience will only co$t you MANY dollar$ to recover that
which i$ ALREADY YOUR$......

You can't "steal" something that you OWN......

If you have to enter private property to do it you can have problems.

Rob