"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Rob" wrote in message
...

If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to
the owners. If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are
out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job. If they
have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy court
can attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust.

Rob - Been there, different circumstances.


It depends on what you consider to be "quickly". In many cases a
Chapter 7 filing ... voluntary or involuntary ... results in all the
assets
and property (owned by the business or not) being held until the
bankruptcy court
plows through all the records. It can take months.

I had a similar experience to John's a few years back in Florida.
I had a Scout stored at a boat yard storage and repair place.
The bank called a note on them and they were forced into
Chapter 7. There was no direct notice to those of us with boats at
the yard.

Similar to John, I became suspicious when I could no longer contact
them. I took a ride to the yard only to find it locked up with a steel
gate
that was padlocked. I sat there for a while in my truck and noticed a
van
pull up, unlock the gate and pulled into the yard. I quickly pulled up
behind him and entered as well.

The guy in the van got out and started yelling at me that they were
"closed".
By this time the situation was clear in my mind, so I pulled my truck
around
him and backed it up to my boat and trailer. Told him I was taking my
boat.
He said I couldn't .. they were "bankrupt" and everything in the yard had
been
frozen by the court.

He ran into the building to call somebody.

Meanwhile, I noticed that the trailer had a flat tire. Another guy came
out
and helped me put a little air in the tire and he then got the keys to the
van
and moved it. Apparently he didn't realize what was going on.

I dragged the boat/trailer out of the yard to the nearest gas station to
fill up the
tire and then headed home. Checked the local "legal notices" for the
town
and discovered they were in bankruptcy. Never heard from them again.

Eisboch

That's a scary situation. What would you have done if the police showed up
before you split?

--
Nom=de=Plume

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:00:35 -0500, Gene wrote:


Really? Not when I recovered MY boat..... sorry..... so , sue me......

Exactly, I'd take the boat. Bottom line, a company going bankrupt has a
hell of a lot more problems than someone taking their own boat. Chances
are they wouldn't bother even bother to call the cops.


I might too, but that doesn't make it legal, and you never know what someone
would do. Since it was sitting on an unlocked lot, it would make it a bit
easier to justify.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:43:26 -0500, Rob wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene
wrote:


You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the
police would
for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop
the
charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

Let point to why I think you are wrong:

"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's
property without that person's freely-given consent."

Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft!

The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area.

Rob

No it wasn't. The area it was in was not fenced or locked. It was
behind the back row of a strip mall. That was one of my worries, that
the boat could be pilfered.

I wouldn't have had to break into anything to get it.
--

John H

Well this is a different scenario that we were led to believe.
In this case I would have gone in and recovered my property too...assuming
it was on 'common tenant ground' behind a mall.
I'd claim they abandoned it.

Yes. Well, he did say it was behind a building, and a lot of people assumed
that meant in a locked yard.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:13:15 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Gene" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:07 -0500, Rob wrote:

John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of
town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still
had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they
should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's
16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the
hell
is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the
hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again
on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to
call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a
fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things
out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter
to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as
far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I
get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff
loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone
replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I
ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I
want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat
with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged
with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows
what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY
FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's
errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at
best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.

In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under
bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long.

Rob

You Sooooooooo don't get it. While they held the boat, John had to sue
for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a
claim on HIS boat.....

Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing"
his own property, I think not....


You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police
would
for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

We'll let me assure you this..... having been there? I'll be wrong,
take my chances.... and feel very sure that I'll be fine.....

Now you see why I can pay no attention to her vacuous, space-cadet
responses.
--

John H


You're just a spineless jerk. You're so afraid of me that you block my
posts??? Now, that's funny!

--
Nom=de=Plume

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:41:12 -0500, Rob wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:07 -0500, wrote:

John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of
town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's
16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell
is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the
hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again
on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to
call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a
fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter
to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as
far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I
get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff
loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone
replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I
ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I
want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat
with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged
with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows
what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's
errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.

In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under
bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long.

Rob

You Sooooooooo don't get it. While they held the boat, John had to sue
for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a
claim on HIS boat.....

Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing"
his own property, I think not....

Wrong - unless the law varies by state (I don't believe it does). I've
witnessed this first-hand. There is a designated time frame where the
owners of property that is in for repair can claim it, and take it, with
proper documentation.

Rob

I had the title with me, just in case.
--

John H


More information that you omitted....

--
Nom=de=Plume

"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 11/25/09 11:51 AM, H the K wrote:
nom=de=plume wrote:

Probably. I read it over again, and I didn't see a mention of it being
behind a gate, so they're probably let it go. Just remember though,
trespass is valid even if there's no gate. You just have to be
careful. If someone saw him cutting a lock and the police showed, he'd
better be able to prove it's his boat. They might let him split, but
you never know.

As usual. You just never know.
I'll be out in your neck of the woods on business soon. What say we get
together and share a Corona or two?


Spoofed post.


Duhh....

--
Nom=de=Plume

"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 11/25/09 11:55 AM, H the K wrote:
nom=de=plume wrote:

Like I said, maybe. Clearly, the property wasn't abandoned, since
someone was there at the end of John's story.

Of course, without the complete facts, it's hard to know what would
happen.

We were all waiting for this enlightenment.



Spoofed post.



Perhaps someone will meet this bozo and give him some five finger
enlightenment.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"JustWaitAFrekinMinute!" wrote in
message
...
On Nov 24, 11:39 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"I am Tosk" wrote in
...





In article ,
says...

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Gene" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and
engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told
them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out
of
town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on
the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still
had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they
should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did
this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday,
that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the
hell
is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the
hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and
again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a
recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try
to
call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a
fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things
out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the
matter
to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that
as
far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to
me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place
can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When
I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff
loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone
replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer.
I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him
I
want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he
hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for
anything.
--

John H

It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your
boat
with
the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged
with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God
knows
what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY
FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's
errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at
best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....
--
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people
who
are
enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
-Thomas Sowell

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm

Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta

No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail
while
they
sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass,
etc.

Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.

Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course
of
action available to him.

Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
"stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.

Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......

Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to
take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all.

Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is
implied by
said lock.

--
Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Uh, what lock?

The lock on the hitch I believe.



--
Nom=de=Plume


Tell them it was your lock and no spare key.


So.. Kalif Swill advocates lying to the police.
That's a good way to get yourself shoved down a staircase....right Snotty?

That's always good for another charge...

--
Nom=de=Plume

On 11/25/09 2:45 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:13:15 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:07 -0500, wrote:

John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of
town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still
had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they
should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's
16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the
hell
is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the
hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again
on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to
call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a
fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things
out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter
to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as
far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I
get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff
loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone
replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I
ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I
want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat
with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged
with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows
what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY
FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's
errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at
best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.

In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under
bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long.

Rob

You Sooooooooo don't get it. While they held the boat, John had to sue
for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a
claim on HIS boat.....

Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing"
his own property, I think not....


You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police
would
for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

We'll let me assure you this..... having been there? I'll be wrong,
take my chances.... and feel very sure that I'll be fine.....

Now you see why I can pay no attention to her vacuous, space-cadet
responses.
--

John H


You're just a spineless jerk. You're so afraid of me that you block my
posts??? Now, that's funny!



Congratulations...you figured out that herring, like *all* the rightie
extremists here, is a spineless jerk. The most spineless, though, is
flajim, followed closely by Rob (Krueger).

--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

On 11/25/09 2:47 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"H the wrote in message
...
On 11/25/09 11:55 AM, H the K wrote:
nom=de=plume wrote:

Like I said, maybe. Clearly, the property wasn't abandoned, since
someone was there at the end of John's story.

Of course, without the complete facts, it's hard to know what would
happen.

We were all waiting for this enlightenment.



Spoofed post.



Perhaps someone will meet this bozo and give him some five finger
enlightenment.


He's just another rec.boats coward.

--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.