Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:43:26 -0500, wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene
wrote:


You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police would
for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

Let point to why I think you are wrong:

"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's
property without that person's freely-given consent."

Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft!

The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area.

Rob

Really? Not when I recovered MY boat..... sorry..... so , sue me......

Good for you. You got away with it.

Don't misunderstand me. I hate the bankruptcy bull****. I had a *cash*
claim for over $36,000 tied up for nearly four years. I ended up with
95% of that. That would be a great outcome for this type of situation
but the trustee, and their lawyers, cashed out for well over $100K. In
my discussions with them they predicted a 100% return but there were two
last-minute claims that they allowed. My bet is that they shot for a
100% payout and set their "expenses" accordingly. The last-minute
claims cost us all about 5%. They didn't lose a dime - and probably
made more. There is no oversight, that I can find, that limits their
costs or the amount of time they let it drag out.

Rob

John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:43:26 -0500, wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene
wrote:


You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police would
for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

Let point to why I think you are wrong:

"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's
property without that person's freely-given consent."

Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft!

The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area.

Rob

No it wasn't. The area it was in was not fenced or locked. It was
behind the back row of a strip mall. That was one of my worries, that
the boat could be pilfered.

I wouldn't have had to break into anything to get it.

Then why the discussion about the bolt cutters and the lock??

Rob

John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:45:38 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
"I am wrote in message
...
In ,
says...

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of
town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's
16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell
is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the
hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again
on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to
call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a
fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter
to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as
far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I
get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff
loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone
replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I
ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I
want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat
with
the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows
what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's
errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....
--
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who
are
enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
-Thomas Sowell

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm

Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta


No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while
they
sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc.

Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.

Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of
action available to him.

Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
"stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.

Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......

Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to
take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all.


Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is implied
by said lock.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Just state they said to come get your boat. And since the business has a
phone disconnected, and no one was available during normal business hours or
could be contacted, I did what they said to do. Picked up my boat. They
would have to prove you were not told to pick up your own boat. The DA's
have enough cases, they do not want to screw around with this crap. And
also if in Calif, they have to release people from jail to reduce numbers
and cost. You think the DA is going to spend any time or money on a case
like this?


Damn. I can't believe y'all stayed up until 1:45 AM arguing
(discussing) my boat problems.

If I'd been here, I could have corrected a couple assumptions. I would
not have 'broken and entered' anyplace. The boat was accessible to the
public, if the public drove behind the shop. No gate, no chain, no
nothing. The only thing preventing the removal of the boat was a
Master padlock on the hitch, which I was about to cut.

I suppose, if a cop had come by, he could have hassled me. That's why
I took the title of the boat with me, and the extra set of keys. I
don't think the cop would have said much.

I find it hard to believe that *anyone* would waste time discussing
this issue with the Plum. WAFJ!



OK. *That* lock. Now it makes more sense.

Rob

John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:36:24 -0500, wrote:

Don White wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:51:38 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:40:21 -0500, John
wrote:


Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.

Sounds like they're goners anyway.
Looks like you were just in time. Good move.
Better see if they actually winterized your boat.

--Vic

I'm not taking any chances. I took it to another Yamaha guy a little
further down the road, Stafford Marine. Told them what happened. Told
them to winterize it, even if it had already been done.

I hadn't given the Dumfries folks any money, so I'm not out anything.
It just takes an extra half-hour of driving to get to this place. But,
that's OK.
--

John H

Read that manual and winterize it yourself.......
oh wait...you don't read manuals.



He has a big boy outboard that they don't sell at Toys R Us.

Rob

And a *new* big boy outboard. Once the warranty has expired, *then*
I'll start doing this stuff myself.

Up until then I figure I'll help out the local marina economy. When
you've got all the money I have (~snerk~), a hundred bucks once a year
isn't going to hurt anything!

I agree. Money well spent and documentation for your warranty.

Rob

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:40:08 -0500, "Peregrine"
wrote:


"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

That's a scary situation. What would you have done if the police showed up
before you split?

--
Nom=de=Plume


As directed by the police, had they shown. To do otherwise would be
breaking the law.
What I did wasn't, at least in my mind.

Eisboch

Getting lonely for all your old "pals" during the holidays or have you
purchased your next vessel?

NotEver wrote:
In article , naled245111
@mypacks.net says...
Don White wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 11/25/09 7:52 AM, Don White wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:43:26 -0500, wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene
wrote:


You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the
police
would
for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop
the
charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.
Let point to why I think you are wrong:

"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's
property without that person's freely-given consent."

Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft!
The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area.

Rob
No it wasn't. The area it was in was not fenced or locked. It was
behind the back row of a strip mall. That was one of my worries, that
the boat could be pilfered.

I wouldn't have had to break into anything to get it.
--

John H
Well this is a different scenario that we were led to believe.
In this case I would have gone in and recovered my property
too...assuming
it was on 'common tenant ground' behind a mall.
I'd claim they abandoned it.


So...there's no chance herring might be arrested? Too bad.

Can you imagine him locked up behind bars? All his crying & whinning would
drive the cops foolish.
Maybe they could put him to work in the galley...baking muffins for the
other prisoners.


Can you imagine what would happen if we left rec.boats? No one would
ever talk about boats. I like the way you included the word galley in
your post, but the idiots in rec.boats don't even know what a galley is.

Please. Leave and try it. Take your suck buddy Don with you, you fat
piece of ****.


Sure, you need me. I make you complete. Asshole.

--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

Don White wrote:
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...
It's the Granola state. Washington state is similar. Fruits and nuts and
flakes.


How about that...you encompass all three traits.



Your quick wit is the only reason I still come to rec.boats.

--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

nom=de=plume wrote:
"Gene" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:40:47 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Rob" wrote in message
...
If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned
to
the owners. If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you
are
out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job. If
they
have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy court
can attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust.

Rob - Been there, different circumstances.

It depends on what you consider to be "quickly". In many cases a
Chapter 7 filing ... voluntary or involuntary ... results in all the
assets
and property (owned by the business or not) being held until the
bankruptcy court
plows through all the records. It can take months.

I had a similar experience to John's a few years back in Florida.
I had a Scout stored at a boat yard storage and repair place.
The bank called a note on them and they were forced into
Chapter 7. There was no direct notice to those of us with boats at
the yard.

Similar to John, I became suspicious when I could no longer contact
them. I took a ride to the yard only to find it locked up with a steel
gate
that was padlocked. I sat there for a while in my truck and noticed a
van
pull up, unlock the gate and pulled into the yard. I quickly pulled up
behind him and entered as well.

The guy in the van got out and started yelling at me that they were
"closed".
By this time the situation was clear in my mind, so I pulled my truck
around
him and backed it up to my boat and trailer. Told him I was taking my
boat.
He said I couldn't .. they were "bankrupt" and everything in the yard
had
been
frozen by the court.

He ran into the building to call somebody.

Meanwhile, I noticed that the trailer had a flat tire. Another guy
came
out
and helped me put a little air in the tire and he then got the keys to
the
van
and moved it. Apparently he didn't realize what was going on.

I dragged the boat/trailer out of the yard to the nearest gas station to
fill up the
tire and then headed home. Checked the local "legal notices" for the
town
and discovered they were in bankruptcy. Never heard from them again.

Eisboch
That's a scary situation. What would you have done if the police showed up
before you split?
Nothing?

So, you're a cop. What are you going to charge him with? Theft of his
own property? Breaking? Nope. Entering? Nope, the gate was open.
Trespassing? Nope.... he had a right to be there if he was paid up.

These are civil, not criminal issues. The cops *really* don't want to
deal with this.

Google replevin and detinue. You'll have a much cheaper education in
this than mine....


If the police show up, you better be able to prove it's your boat. If you
can't immediately, they'll haul your butt in and sort it out there. You can
call it civil if you want, but the facts on the ground will be your butt
sitting in jail until someone shows up with the pink slip.


You tell him, the assholes in rec.boats are too stupid to bring a valid
ID and their boat registration. They are all morons.
I wonder why you and I hang out with these idiots. Would you like to
get together for a beer and whatever?
--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

nom=de=plume wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 11/25/09 2:45 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:13:15 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:07 -0500, wrote:

John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and
engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out
of
town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still
had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they
should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did
this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday,
that's
16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the
hell
is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the
hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and
again
on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a
recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to
call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a
fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things
out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the
matter
to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that
as
far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to
me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I
get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff
loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone
replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I
ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him
I
want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H

It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your
boat
with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged
with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God
knows
what
else.
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY
FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's
errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at
best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....
I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt
much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat
was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.
In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under
bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long.

Rob
You Sooooooooo don't get it. While they held the boat, John had to
sue
for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect
a
claim on HIS boat.....

Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing"
his own property, I think not....

You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police
would
for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.
We'll let me assure you this..... having been there? I'll be wrong,
take my chances.... and feel very sure that I'll be fine.....
Now you see why I can pay no attention to her vacuous, space-cadet
responses.
--

John H

You're just a spineless jerk. You're so afraid of me that you block my
posts??? Now, that's funny!


Congratulations...you figured out that herring, like *all* the rightie
extremists here, is a spineless jerk. The most spineless, though, is
flajim, followed closely by Rob (Krueger).


I don't think I just figured this out... no offense intended!


Good, when I read this I thought you might be just one step above the
trash called Herring

--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

nom=de=plume wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 11/25/09 5:50 PM, H the K wrote:

What kind of charge are you talking about?


Spoofed


I don't think you have to worry about people mistaking the two of you.

To answer its question... high voltage. Don't taze me bro...


I refuse to acknowledge these low life assholes, they are not worth my time.

--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.