"jps" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:46:34 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 11/25/09 11:51 AM, H the K wrote:
nom=de=plume wrote:

Probably. I read it over again, and I didn't see a mention of it being
behind a gate, so they're probably let it go. Just remember though,
trespass is valid even if there's no gate. You just have to be
careful. If someone saw him cutting a lock and the police showed, he'd
better be able to prove it's his boat. They might let him split, but
you never know.

As usual. You just never know.
I'll be out in your neck of the woods on business soon. What say we get
together and share a Corona or two?


Spoofed post.


Duhh....

Only an idiot from the south would suggest Corona in the winter.


Besides, I prefer Pacifico...

--
Nom=de=Plume

"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 11/25/09 5:50 PM, H the K wrote:


What kind of charge are you talking about?



Spoofed


I don't think you have to worry about people mistaking the two of you.

To answer its question... high voltage. Don't taze me bro...

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"I am Tosk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Gene" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and
engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out
of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still
had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they
should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did
this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday,
that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the
hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the
hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and
again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a
recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to
call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a
fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things
out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the
matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that
as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to
me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I
get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff
loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone
replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I
ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him
I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat
with
the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged
with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God
knows what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY
FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's
errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at
best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....
--
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people
who are
enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
-Thomas Sowell

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm

Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta


No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while
they
sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass,
etc.

Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.

Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of
action available to him.

Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
"stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.

Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......

Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to
take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all.


Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is
implied by said lock.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Just state they said to come get your boat. And since the business has
a phone disconnected, and no one was available during normal business
hours or could be contacted, I did what they said to do. Picked up my
boat. They would have to prove you were not told to pick up your own
boat. The DA's have enough cases, they do not want to screw around with
this crap. And also if in Calif, they have to release people from jail
to reduce numbers and cost. You think the DA is going to spend any time
or money on a case like this?

So, you're willing to sit in jail... well, ok. Sure, you'll get out
(maybe) after a hearing. With the docket crowded as it is, I'm sure you'd
get out by February.

--
Nom=de=Plume


You would be out on OR in less than a couple hours. Unless you have a
record as a bad guy and they want you put away.

So, you don't mind sitting in jail for a couple of hours. Well, ok. Go for
it.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Don White wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:36:24 -0500, wrote:

Don White wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:51:38 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:40:21 -0500, John
wrote:


Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.

Sounds like they're goners anyway.
Looks like you were just in time. Good move.
Better see if they actually winterized your boat.

--Vic

I'm not taking any chances. I took it to another Yamaha guy a little
further down the road, Stafford Marine. Told them what happened. Told
them to winterize it, even if it had already been done.

I hadn't given the Dumfries folks any money, so I'm not out anything.
It just takes an extra half-hour of driving to get to this place. But,
that's OK.
--

John H

Read that manual and winterize it yourself.......
oh wait...you don't read manuals.



He has a big boy outboard that they don't sell at Toys R Us.

Rob

And a *new* big boy outboard. Once the warranty has expired, *then*
I'll start doing this stuff myself.

Up until then I figure I'll help out the local marina economy. When
you've got all the money I have (~snerk~), a hundred bucks once a year
isn't going to hurt anything!
--

John H

Yup...Uncle Sam has always taken good care of you and what thanks does he
receive in return???



It's payback from the years he served. You will never understand that,
dummy, so STFU.

Rob

Don White wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:43:26 -0500, wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene
wrote:


You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police
would
for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

Let point to why I think you are wrong:

"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's
property without that person's freely-given consent."

Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft!

The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area.

Rob

No it wasn't. The area it was in was not fenced or locked. It was
behind the back row of a strip mall. That was one of my worries, that
the boat could be pilfered.

I wouldn't have had to break into anything to get it.
--

John H

Well this is a different scenario that we were led to believe.
In this case I would have gone in and recovered my property too...assuming
it was on 'common tenant ground' behind a mall.
I'd claim they abandoned it.



You obviously either didn't read the OP, or you are too stupid to
understand what he said. Your response is worthless.

Rob

Don White wrote:

You're half right...which is better than usual.
I do own a 1954/55 British Seagull 40 Plus that requires a starter rope to
be wound around the flywheel.
On my Princecraft Yukon I'm all electric start...... both the 25hp Johnson
and the Minn Kota.



Nice! Those recoil start MinnKotas are a bitch to start at times!

Rob

Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...

If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to
the owners. If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are
out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job. If they
have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy court can
attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust.

Rob - Been there, different circumstances.


It depends on what you consider to be "quickly". In many cases a
Chapter 7 filing ... voluntary or involuntary ... results in all the assets
and property (owned by the business or not) being held until the bankruptcy
court
plows through all the records. It can take months.

I had a similar experience to John's a few years back in Florida.
I had a Scout stored at a boat yard storage and repair place.
The bank called a note on them and they were forced into
Chapter 7. There was no direct notice to those of us with boats at
the yard.

Similar to John, I became suspicious when I could no longer contact
them. I took a ride to the yard only to find it locked up with a steel gate
that was padlocked. I sat there for a while in my truck and noticed a van
pull up, unlock the gate and pulled into the yard. I quickly pulled up
behind him and entered as well.

The guy in the van got out and started yelling at me that they were
"closed".
By this time the situation was clear in my mind, so I pulled my truck around
him and backed it up to my boat and trailer. Told him I was taking my
boat.
He said I couldn't .. they were "bankrupt" and everything in the yard had
been
frozen by the court.

He ran into the building to call somebody.

Meanwhile, I noticed that the trailer had a flat tire. Another guy came
out
and helped me put a little air in the tire and he then got the keys to the
van
and moved it. Apparently he didn't realize what was going on.

I dragged the boat/trailer out of the yard to the nearest gas station to
fill up the
tire and then headed home. Checked the local "legal notices" for the town
and discovered they were in bankruptcy. Never heard from them again.

Eisboch




The delay is due to poor record keeping. If the bankruptcy trustee had
easy access to the list of privately owned boats in for repair, they
would release them a lot sooner than if they had to wade through piles
of papers. In FL, at least, they will talk to people who claim they
have personal property in for repair and release it when they can
confirm ownership.

Rob

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:37:45 -0500, wrote:

Personal property that is in for repair is always released
prior to the auction

Only so far as it is "free and clear." A less than honest mechanic can
create a very convincing labor lien based on services not performed.

If he is *really* clever he knows how to perfect a labor lien... if
not, he'll threaten and cajole. Your MilkToast position would make you
ripe for picking......... man up, dude......

again..... this isn't opinion.... I have battle scars....

Why would a mechanic in a failing business have a motive to go to that
trouble? Maybe your experience is different than mine.

I have also seen that bankruptcy trustees can be rather flexible when it
comes to obvious ownership of a product. They really don't want to deal
with it.

Rob

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:41:12 -0500, wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:07 -0500, wrote:

John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.

In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under
bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long.

Rob

You Sooooooooo don't get it. While they held the boat, John had to sue
for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a
claim on HIS boat.....

Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing"
his own property, I think not....

Wrong - unless the law varies by state (I don't believe it does). I've
witnessed this first-hand. There is a designated time frame where the
owners of property that is in for repair can claim it, and take it, with
proper documentation.

Rob

Rob,

I don't know where you live and I won't troll for that...... BUT.... I
urge you to explore your laws and justify how a person can "STEAL" his
own property.

IOW.... if I come to your property and liberate your boat, your point
is...... what? What do you have to do to recover your property once
locked in my lot? I'll lie and say that you gave me the property for
repair....

now... defend yourself.....

I have nothing to defend. Tell me where I said they could claim their
property unlawfully. There are people from the trustees office on
property almost immediately after a Chapter 7 filing.

Rob

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:42:23 -0500, wrote:

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:10:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
news On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"John wrote in message
...
On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.

I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.

Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.

The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.

Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. ****.

I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.

This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.

I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."

Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--

John H


It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with
the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
the best approach.

To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.

When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
forgiveness, NOT permission.....

I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.

They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.
--

John H


You'd be wrong. If you remove something from someone else's property without
their permission, you're subject to arrest.

Not when that "something" is YOUR property.....

This nine-tenths business gets a
lot of people in trouble who wouldn't have been if they just had some
patience.

Bull$hit... patience will only co$t you MANY dollar$ to recover that
which i$ ALREADY YOUR$......

You can't "steal" something that you OWN......

If you have to enter private property to do it you can have problems.

Rob

Wrong.... as every Fuller Brush Man knows........

post No Trespassing signs....... maybe a different situation.....

What the hell are you thinking? Private property doesn't require No
Trespassing signs. It's no different than someone's house.

Rob