"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Jeff" wrote in message
...


I'd be curious to see the numbers. Canoe deaths were 80 last year, over
10% of the total; while kayak deaths were 34, or 5%. However, Kayak
sales
are about 4 times canoes, so there is a discrepancy. The two together
have been selling about half a million a year recently, though falling
off
last year. So its quite possible that the number of "paddle boats" out
there are equal to the number of small open power boats (or at least a
significant percentage of them) which were involved in 350 deaths last
year.

So I could believe that canoes are responsible for a disproportional
number of deaths, but not kayaks. My hunch is that most kayakers wear
PFDs, but many canoe users are actually fishing and don't think they are
at risk.

Although I often wear a PFD while kayaking, I have trouble convincing my
wife to do so, because we almost always kayak in very protecting
fla****er, often only a few feet deep.

I would expect a number of any deaths reported from canoes and kayaks are
due to them being run down by fast power boats in the hands of idiots.




Actually it is the paddler that is most often the idiot. I almost ran over
a shell in a light fog in San Francisco Bay a couple years ago. Guy is in a
white shell, wearing a white shirt, and is in the middle of the channel
area. Luckily it was me, going maybe 20 mph and not the ferryboat doing 35
knots. You could hardly see the idiot at 30'. Is why my next yak is going
to be a bright color. And I wear a bright red PFD when paddling. Sort of
the same mentality as a lot of sailboaters. I am in a sailboat, I have the
right of way. My wife got hit by a sailboat in Mission Bay, SD. while in a
yak. Could not get completely out of the way. He is in the back, f'n
around with something and the tiller is locked and he is doing 10-12 and is
not looking at all where he is headed. I did not have the VHF with me at
the time or he would be explaining the hit-run to the police and lifeguards.
Could not get his numbers and the other witness didn't either. I have had
sailboats with the motor running turn directly in front of me with a 90
degree term. And other sailboaters say, maybe he was not under power and
only charging battery. BS. Motor running, is a power boat. Same as I
heard a sailboater claim he had the right of way over a large tanker
entering SF Bay. He will be both dead, and wrong.

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Jeff" wrote in message
...


I'd be curious to see the numbers. Canoe deaths were 80 last year, over
10% of the total; while kayak deaths were 34, or 5%. However, Kayak
sales
are about 4 times canoes, so there is a discrepancy. The two together
have been selling about half a million a year recently, though falling
off
last year. So its quite possible that the number of "paddle boats" out
there are equal to the number of small open power boats (or at least a
significant percentage of them) which were involved in 350 deaths last
year.

So I could believe that canoes are responsible for a disproportional
number of deaths, but not kayaks. My hunch is that most kayakers wear
PFDs, but many canoe users are actually fishing and don't think they are
at risk.

Although I often wear a PFD while kayaking, I have trouble convincing my
wife to do so, because we almost always kayak in very protecting
fla****er, often only a few feet deep.

I would expect a number of any deaths reported from canoes and kayaks are
due to them being run down by fast power boats in the hands of idiots.




Actually it is the paddler that is most often the idiot. I almost ran
over a shell in a light fog in San Francisco Bay a couple years ago. Guy
is in a white shell, wearing a white shirt, and is in the middle of the
channel area. Luckily it was me, going maybe 20 mph and not the ferryboat
doing 35 knots. You could hardly see the idiot at 30'. Is why my next
yak is going to be a bright color. And I wear a bright red PFD when
paddling. Sort of the same mentality as a lot of sailboaters. I am in a
sailboat, I have the right of way. My wife got hit by a sailboat in
Mission Bay, SD. while in a yak. Could not get completely out of the
way. He is in the back, f'n around with something and the tiller is
locked and he is doing 10-12 and is not looking at all where he is headed.
I did not have the VHF with me at the time or he would be explaining the
hit-run to the police and lifeguards. Could not get his numbers and the
other witness didn't either. I have had sailboats with the motor running
turn directly in front of me with a 90 degree term. And other sailboaters
say, maybe he was not under power and only charging battery. BS. Motor
running, is a power boat. Same as I heard a sailboater claim he had the
right of way over a large tanker entering SF Bay. He will be both dead,
and wrong.

Technically, the engine needs to be engaged for it to be under power, but I
agree with you. If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat. I figure that the other guy is going to see the raw
water coming out, and that might be enough to fool him. Why take a
chance....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:44:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:44:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.



Taught by whom? Not out here, as far as I know.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:29:14 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.



Taught by whom? Not out here, as far as I know.

Training schools approved and monitored by USCG.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:29:14 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.



Taught by whom? Not out here, as far as I know.

Training schools approved and monitored by USCG.



That's too bad. It's not been my experience out here, but I suppose it
happens.

My understanding is that the approved schools really aren't monitored,
certainly not closely. They typically get the curriculum approved, and
that's about it beside submitting the completed tests. You're talking about
regular sailing schools or license classes (e.g., OUPV, 100GT)?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:40:16 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:29:14 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.



Taught by whom? Not out here, as far as I know.

Training schools approved and monitored by USCG.



That's too bad. It's not been my experience out here, but I suppose it
happens.

Actually it might be a good thing in terms of educating the chowder
heads who go around motoring with their mainsail up, and trying to
press for right of way.


My understanding is that the approved schools really aren't monitored,
certainly not closely. They typically get the curriculum approved, and
that's about it beside submitting the completed tests. You're talking about
regular sailing schools or license classes (e.g., OUPV, 100GT)?

License classes. Several different instructors have told me that
admiralty courts have ruled that if propulsion is on and available,
then the boat can not be considered under sail for purposes of
collision avoidance.

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:32:26 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:44:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.

Not really. Even Americas Cup racers are permitted to run an engine
for charging purposes while racing.

I have an outboard on my boat. If I am just noodling around and not
trying to set any speed records, I may leave the engine in the water
while sailing, even though it is not running. That may look like I'm
motoring to you, but if you don't see a black sphere hanging from my
spreaders, or a steaming light, I'm a sailboat.

That's the LAW.

If I am running my engine in neutral, I am still 100% a sailboat. That
is the law. It is the responsibility of all mariners to pay attention
to lights and dayshapes.

Also bear in mind that a boat that is motoring with it's sails up is
somewhat restricted in it's ability to manuver. Power boats can slow,
stop, and turn immediately in any direction. A motorsailer, not so
much.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:32:26 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:44:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.

Not really. Even Americas Cup racers are permitted to run an engine
for charging purposes while racing.

I have an outboard on my boat. If I am just noodling around and not
trying to set any speed records, I may leave the engine in the water
while sailing, even though it is not running. That may look like I'm
motoring to you, but if you don't see a black sphere hanging from my
spreaders, or a steaming light, I'm a sailboat.

That's the LAW.

If I am running my engine in neutral, I am still 100% a sailboat. That
is the law. It is the responsibility of all mariners to pay attention
to lights and dayshapes.

Also bear in mind that a boat that is motoring with it's sails up is
somewhat restricted in it's ability to manuver. Power boats can slow,
stop, and turn immediately in any direction. A motorsailer, not so
much.


If I see a black sphere in your rigging I will assume that you are anchored,
since that's what that shape says. A steaming sailboat requires an inverted
cone shape. How many have one aboard; how many actually deploy it?

--
KLC Lewis

WISCONSIN
Where It's So Cool Outside, Nobody Stays Indoors Napping
www.KLCLewisStudios.com

In article ,
says...

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:32:26 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:44:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.

Not really. Even Americas Cup racers are permitted to run an engine
for charging purposes while racing.

I have an outboard on my boat. If I am just noodling around and not
trying to set any speed records, I may leave the engine in the water
while sailing, even though it is not running. That may look like I'm
motoring to you, but if you don't see a black sphere hanging from my
spreaders, or a steaming light, I'm a sailboat.

That's the LAW.

If I am running my engine in neutral, I am still 100% a sailboat. That
is the law. It is the responsibility of all mariners to pay attention
to lights and dayshapes.

Also bear in mind that a boat that is motoring with it's sails up is
somewhat restricted in it's ability to manuver. Power boats can slow,
stop, and turn immediately in any direction. A motorsailer, not so
much.


If I see a black sphere in your rigging I will assume that you are anchored,
since that's what that shape says. A steaming sailboat requires an inverted
cone shape. How many have one aboard; how many actually deploy it?

Oh Gawd, Salty is back.. I guess he thinks we all forgot about his boy
love rants on alt.americanidol.boys. If you see any flag on Salty's
boat, best to just run him over and save some young boy from his
filth...