On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 07:45:14 -0400, Jim wrote:


Reminds me of some of the stuff the Cubans were floating over on back
in the '90s. I remember one raft made out of rebar. The whole thing
was wrapped in a blue poly tarp, and used a couple of chunks of
Styrofoam for floatation. Frankly, I wouldn't have crossed a small
pond in it, let alone 90 miles of ocean. Guts, desperation, or both.

In Key West I saw an innertube with a door strapped to it. Supposedly it
was used to make the 90 mile crossing from Cigarland.

In the early '90s, there was a Cuban restaurant in Miami, that had a
collection of rafts that had made the journey. Most all of them were
damn scary. Now, apparently, they are a thing of the past.

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/exile/vanishing.htm

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:13:21 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 10:07:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:53:50 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:


I watched their attempt to use duct tape to patch a hole from under
water with some interest.
Half-assed worked.
A special adhesive formulation that sticks better - to put in the
emergency kit - would probably sell to boaters.

They went about it wrong - a patch isn't going to work.

Whipping up a ball and/or plug would have been perfect.

Just like their drill made perfectly round hole.
I suspect most holings in glass are jagged and take odd shapes.
And there's probably no time to whittle.
My 2 leading ideas for emergency patching holes in glass caused by
hitting debris, both applied from the outside by diving overboard,

2. A glue attached patch that could be unfolded and slapped over the
hole. Something like visqueen. Maybe with a backing that is pulled
off to activate/expose the glue. Couple feet square should do, but
could be various sizes.
Trouble is I haven't seen a suitable underwater glue.
Some talk about developing them by copying barnacle secretions, etc.,
but nothing I've seen on the market that is fast and sticky
underwater.
Seems the best thing might actually be a tube of roofing patch tar,
applying a wide bead with a caulk gun around the hole, then slapping
the sheet of visqueen on it. Just an idea, and I don't know if it
would work. But I'd love to try it if I lived by real water instead
of just rain. Damn it, I've seen about 2 hours of sun since I got
back from Florida a couple weeks ago.

So, number 1 choice is.......

1. A PFD-like bag, suitably sized, that can jammed in the hole, and
inflated by pulling a CO2 lanyard.
Pleating to accommodate hole jaggedness, flexibility/ toughness of
material, and inflation pressure are the main engineering issues.
Not exactly rocket science, but still....

These are quick and dirty measures to stop most inflow and give the
boater a chance to dewater by pumping/bailing, and make a more
permanent patch if possible.
Not as a replacement for normal damage control plugs, which are fine
for a broken thruhull for example.
Big ships carry timbers to shore a mattress against a hole in the hull
and all kinds of other crap.
Wouldn't be prudent to carry such on a 20' Carolina Skiff.
Now I have to go.
Time to study life rafts, and maybe a device/tool/kit to assist in
righting a capsized boat.
So many problems to solve, so little time.

--Vic

On Oct 16, 12:49*pm, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:13:21 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports



wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 10:07:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:53:50 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

I watched their attempt to use duct tape to patch a hole from under
water with some interest.
Half-assed worked.
A special adhesive formulation that sticks better - to put in the
emergency kit - would probably sell to boaters.

They went about it wrong - a patch isn't going to work.

Whipping up a ball and/or plug would have been perfect.

Just like their drill made perfectly round hole.
I suspect most holings in glass are jagged and take odd shapes.
And there's probably no time to whittle.
My 2 leading ideas for emergency patching holes in glass caused by
hitting debris, both applied from the outside by diving overboard,

2. *A glue attached patch that could be unfolded and slapped over the
hole. *Something like visqueen. *Maybe with a backing that is pulled
off to activate/expose the glue. *Couple feet square should do, but
could be various sizes.
Trouble is I haven't seen a suitable underwater glue.
Some talk about developing them by copying barnacle secretions, etc.,
but nothing I've seen on the market that is fast and sticky
underwater.
Seems the best thing might actually be a tube of roofing patch tar,
applying a wide bead with a caulk gun around the hole, then slapping
the sheet of visqueen on it. *Just an idea, and I don't know if it
would work. *But I'd love to try it if I lived by real water instead
of just rain. *Damn it, I've seen about 2 hours of sun since I got
back from Florida a couple weeks ago.

So, number 1 choice is.......

1. A PFD-like bag, suitably sized, that can jammed in the hole, and
inflated by pulling a CO2 lanyard.
Pleating to accommodate hole jaggedness, flexibility/ toughness of
material, and inflation pressure are the main engineering issues.
Not exactly rocket science, but still....

These are quick and dirty measures to stop most inflow and give the
boater a chance to dewater by pumping/bailing, and make a more
permanent patch if possible.
Not as a replacement for normal damage control plugs, which are fine
for a broken thruhull for example.
Big ships carry timbers to shore a mattress against a hole in the hull
and all kinds of other crap.
Wouldn't be prudent to carry such on a 20' Carolina Skiff.
Now I have to go.
Time to study life rafts, and maybe a device/tool/kit to assist in
righting a capsized boat.
So many problems to solve, so little time.

--Vic

The fishermen in the sound using plywood skiffs used to carry pieces
of plywood and roofing tar for quick fixes to get home...

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:49:26 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

I suspect most holings in glass are jagged and take odd shapes.
And there's probably no time to whittle.

That's all true but the vast majority of boat sinkings, large and
small, are caused by other things.

http://www.boattest.com/Resources/vi...spx?NewsID=609

On larger boats raw water hoses and hose clamps are a common problem.
Other than good preventive maintenance, the best defenses are high
water alarms and large bilge pumps.

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:14:09 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:49:26 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

I suspect most holings in glass are jagged and take odd shapes.
And there's probably no time to whittle.

That's all true but the vast majority of boat sinkings, large and
small, are caused by other things.

http://www.boattest.com/Resources/vi...spx?NewsID=609

On larger boats raw water hoses and hose clamps are a common problem.
Other than good preventive maintenance, the best defenses are high
water alarms and large bilge pumps.

Yeah, think I posted that before. Low-hanging fruit.
I'm looking to patch holes in glass from the outside.
Are all your thruhulls and cooling system hoses easily accessed?
I'll probably end up with a bare hull boat with no thruhulls.
Ala Carolina Skiff.
But I get the impression that many thruhulls and other failure points
aren't easily accessed on some boats.
And sometimes lots of concealment of the actual source by various
accoutrements.
That's reason enough right there for a bilge alarm.
BTW, a buddy with a Wauquiez Hood 38, a supposedly high quality
ocean-goer, found that the thruhulls had no backing plates - just
heavily glassed in.
Came from the factory that way during that time-period.
He fixed that right quick.
Anyway, I like the idea of going over the side with a patch kit.
When it is the only solution, of course.
My motto: Be Prepared to Be a Hero Should the Chance Present Itself.
Backup Motto: Sometimes You Can Just Run Like Hell.

--Vic

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:39:30 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Anyway, I like the idea of going over the side with a patch kit.
When it is the only solution, of course.

Going into the water to make a repair is highly problematic. There's
a lot of risk and it's difficult to maintain your position and grip
while you're working. I carry a regulated dive compressor, wet suit,
weight belt, etc., and have used it a few times to clear lines from
the props. Even anchored in relatively calm water it is difficult
and moderately dangerous to be working under the boat.

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 22:20:41 -0400, wrote:

If you just want to limp home at hull speed I bet you could just drift
over a submerged poly tarp and pull it up to the gunnels all around
then bail the boat out. If you had a huge hole, pull a PFD cushion (or
something similar) up under the hole first to support the tarp.
It would be easier if you could actually get in the water to align
things but that assumes you are somewhere warm.
That won't help the guys with straight inboards, tho you still might
be able to keep the boat from sinking, even if you can't use your
engine to go. That is when it is handy to have that skiff on the
davits to tow you home. or just a kicker on a bracket.

Only once have I seen a boat with a large hole threatening to sink.
We were at Cuttyhunk Island south of Cape Cod 4 years ago when the
coast guard and SeaTow brought in a 40+ motor yacht that had banged a
rock and put a shaft strut up through the bottom. They had three
very high capacity pumps onboard keeping it afloat. I believe SeaTow
had a diver who was eventually able to slow things down but don't know
what they used.

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:39:30 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Are all your thruhulls and cooling system hoses easily accessed?

Most but not all.

I'll probably end up with a bare hull boat with no thruhulls.
Ala Carolina Skiff.

The biggest risk to open boats is swamping and capsize. That can
happen right at the dock in storm conditions.

On 10/17/09 9:00 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:39:30 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Are all your thruhulls and cooling system hoses easily accessed?

Most but not all.

I'll probably end up with a bare hull boat with no thruhulls.
Ala Carolina Skiff.

The biggest risk to open boats is swamping and capsize. That can
happen right at the dock in storm conditions.


Typically, the occupants of an open boat sunk at the dock in storm
conditions don't have far to swim. Occupants of a aging 49' barge
sinking 50 miles offshore...shark bait.


--
http://tinyurl.com/ykaa4k7

On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 09:00:24 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:39:30 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Are all your thruhulls and cooling system hoses easily accessed?

Most but not all.

I'll probably end up with a bare hull boat with no thruhulls.
Ala Carolina Skiff.

The biggest risk to open boats is swamping and capsize. That can
happen right at the dock in storm conditions.

I think I'll give up on the patch kit idea for a while.
No real interest, since the chance of needing it is slight.
Now, anti-capsize. That's interesting.
Time to start talking about inflatable amas deploying from
the gunnels in swamp/capsize situations.
And manual bailing methods when batteries are wet.

--Vic