It being November .. I always think "huum, maybe this winter I will repower"

And so I start to look around.. the ususal suspects: Beta, Yanmar,
Universal.

I stumbled.. or I should say they stumbled upon me .. the Phasor engine.

It is a Kabota.. pretty much seems like a Beta.. Since Beta are Kabota..

What do ya know?

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:07:15 GMT, "Sir Thomas of Cannondale"
wrote:

It being November .. I always think "huum, maybe this winter I will repower"

And so I start to look around.. the ususal suspects: Beta, Yanmar,
Universal.

I stumbled.. or I should say they stumbled upon me .. the Phasor engine.

It is a Kabota.. pretty much seems like a Beta.. Since Beta are Kabota..

What do ya know?


Not much but the Kubota's have a good reputation. Is Phasor the
importer and/or marinizer?

In my experience the single most important factor in an engine
decision is the availavility of parts and service because sooner or
later you will need both. Yanmar and Westerbeke probably lead the
pack in that respect. I believe Universal is now Westerbeke.

Wayne ,, just goofing on the net and what I've found is that the Kubota
engine is what Beta uses.

Beta makes the Marine changes.

So,, then this Phasor email shows up..

I look and the Phasor is pretty much the same as the Beta..

I'm thinking .. Kubota engine, so parts are Kubota.. but Phasor does the
marine changes.

What I think is happening is: some smart guys are figuring out the Beta
system and copying it. Why not.

Take a look at the Beta.. Kubota engine and associated parts.
Take a look at the Phasor .. Kubota and associated parts.

Both have the heat exchanger ..etc.


Beta has been advertising like crazy the last few years. Let's face it, the
buyer is paying for all that advertising.

If someone can use the Beta ideas, the Kubota engine, make the changes in
the USA.. with our weak dollar the oversea's engine's are
going to get real expensive ..

Who knows.

==
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:07:15 GMT, "Sir Thomas of Cannondale"
wrote:

It being November .. I always think "huum, maybe this winter I will
repower"

And so I start to look around.. the ususal suspects: Beta, Yanmar,
Universal.

I stumbled.. or I should say they stumbled upon me .. the Phasor engine.

It is a Kabota.. pretty much seems like a Beta.. Since Beta are Kabota..

What do ya know?


Not much but the Kubota's have a good reputation. Is Phasor the
importer and/or marinizer?

In my experience the single most important factor in an engine
decision is the availavility of parts and service because sooner or
later you will need both. Yanmar and Westerbeke probably lead the
pack in that respect. I believe Universal is now Westerbeke.

"Sir Thomas of Cannondale" wrote in message
news:n2g1j.1757$281.470@trndny06...
It being November .. I always think "huum, maybe this winter I will
repower"

And so I start to look around.. the ususal suspects: Beta, Yanmar,
Universal.

I stumbled.. or I should say they stumbled upon me .. the Phasor engine.

It is a Kabota.. pretty much seems like a Beta.. Since Beta are Kabota..

What do ya know?

Look at the Vetus diesel engine http://www.vetus.nl/en/catalogue_2008.html

It is a Mitsubishi engine. They also make engine for other branded name.

My friend repowered (about 2 years ago) a 38 C&C Landfall with a Vetus MT
15, 4 cylinders. The price included all instruments/cabling without the
transmission for $6.000.00 USD.

He installed it himself and had minimum re-bedding and alignment to do. He
had no problem to install his old transmission.

So far he is extremely please with the engine and always cruise at maximum
hull speed.



http://www.vetus.nl/en/catalogue_2008.html

"Sir Thomas of Cannondale" wrote in
news:R9h1j.18212$701.1027@trndny08:

Who knows.


I don't think those labels make any difference any more. Manufacturers
aren't really manufacturers any more, just brokers for obscure
manufacturer contractors noone ever heard of.

Case in point. I had a Honda EM5000X 5.5KW genset. It had a slant-
cylinder 11HP OHV 4-stroke engine on it that said HONDA all over it.
Honda made the whole thing, generator and all, painted Honda red......and
quite expensive because of it. It was a great generator, too!

But, roaming inside Pep Boys looking for something, I stumbled upon a
whole rack of Chinese generators from manufacturers I couldn't even
pronounce. I saw a familiar shaped engine on a 6KW Chinese model and
took a closer look. There sat my HONDA 11hp OHV 4-stroke
engine....EXACTLY what was on my Honda genset....at 1/4 the price! Where
the HONDA genset had HONDA stamped into the aluminum block....it was
blank on this engine. There were unused motor mounts on this block that
HONDA used to mount the motor to the frame. It had the same carb, same
valve cover without HONDA stamped into it, same everything except the
name.

Just like electronics, the company whos name is emblazoned on the cabinet
is only the broker for the manufacturer in Foo Man Chu you never will
hear of. Chuck Hung Lo Manufacturing and Storm Door, Foo Man Chu, PRC.

Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Sir Thomas of Cannondale" wrote in
news:R9h1j.18212$701.1027@trndny08:

Who knows.


I don't think those labels make any difference any more. Manufacturers
aren't really manufacturers any more, just brokers for obscure
manufacturer contractors noone ever heard of.

Case in point. I had a Honda EM5000X 5.5KW genset. It had a slant-
cylinder 11HP OHV 4-stroke engine on it that said HONDA all over it.
Honda made the whole thing, generator and all, painted Honda red......and
quite expensive because of it. It was a great generator, too!

But, roaming inside Pep Boys looking for something, I stumbled upon a
whole rack of Chinese generators from manufacturers I couldn't even
pronounce. I saw a familiar shaped engine on a 6KW Chinese model and
took a closer look. There sat my HONDA 11hp OHV 4-stroke
engine....EXACTLY what was on my Honda genset....at 1/4 the price! Where
the HONDA genset had HONDA stamped into the aluminum block....it was
blank on this engine. There were unused motor mounts on this block that
HONDA used to mount the motor to the frame. It had the same carb, same
valve cover without HONDA stamped into it, same everything except the
name.

Just like electronics, the company whos name is emblazoned on the cabinet
is only the broker for the manufacturer in Foo Man Chu you never will
hear of. Chuck Hung Lo Manufacturing and Storm Door, Foo Man Chu, PRC.

Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;

================================================== ===============================

Larry ,, you once again make sound points. I am at the "just looking" stage
so I'm able to look, think, decide.
One funny quirt of the diesel marine engine market; there are no prices on
their web sites. Take a look at Beta.
They have just about everything and anything a boat owner would ever need to
know when thinking about or actually
doing/installing a repower. But NO PRICES. Nope. It always says "call
this xxxx number for a price". I find this very strange.

I wonder if it is because they use a Kubota motor and just marine it.

I think I understand the "marine changes" part but now I'm not sure.

What if a boat owner just bought a Kubota motor, like the one that Beta
uses. What is the difference between the Kubota and the
marine Beta. I realize that the motor will need a heat exchanger,
alternator, etc.

Do you know?

Any other well thought out ideas?

Thanks

I've been down this road recently for under 50 hp sailing auxiliaries
generally available for purchase in the US Here's what I found:

"Marinization" is the process of adding (to a basic industrial diesel
engine)

Raw water pump and hoses
Heat exchanger / exhaust elbow
Air intake filter
Basic electrics (alternator, wiring harness, engine low/high alarms
etc)
Bell housing, ie. everything aft of the flywheel
Mounting brackets and vibration dampers
Accessories (instrument panel, oil sump pump and the like)

The Kubota blocks are marinzed by:

Beta
Universal
Phasor

The Mitsubishi blocks are marinized by:

Westerbeke
Vetus

The Perkins blocks are marinized by:

Volvo

There are a few 'independent engine, someone else's transmission'

Volkswagen Marine (very cool, IMHO but smallest is 40 hp) see:
http://www.vw-m.de/index.php?L=1&id=10
Lombardini

There's one completely independent (engine and transmission):

Yanmar

It's interesting to note that Westebeke markets both the Mitsubishi
(under their banner) and the Kubota (under the Universal banner). The
Mitsubishi/Westerbeke is thir 'flagship' and is about 20% more
expensive than the Universal. One might decuce that either the
Mitsubishi is a 'better' engine than the Kubota, or that Westerbeke
takes more "care' in the marinization of the Mitsu...

I've seen the Phasor at various boat shows and was impressed by their
marinization - stainless steel exhaust riser, silicon hoses, decent
sized alternator as standard equipment. For prices, visit a major
boat show where all of these guys exhibit - play one off the other

MW
Los Angeles

Mike,, that was great.. you really did a good job of explaining this..

Now .. It guess I should post a message asking for the Boat Show line up.. I
will... why not.. it is almost winter.. ooops.. there is snow on the ground
where I live .. that makes it official.

===
wrote in message
...
I've been down this road recently for under 50 hp sailing auxiliaries
generally available for purchase in the US Here's what I found:

"Marinization" is the process of adding (to a basic industrial diesel
engine)

Raw water pump and hoses
Heat exchanger / exhaust elbow
Air intake filter
Basic electrics (alternator, wiring harness, engine low/high alarms
etc)
Bell housing, ie. everything aft of the flywheel
Mounting brackets and vibration dampers
Accessories (instrument panel, oil sump pump and the like)

The Kubota blocks are marinzed by:

Beta
Universal
Phasor

The Mitsubishi blocks are marinized by:

Westerbeke
Vetus

The Perkins blocks are marinized by:

Volvo

There are a few 'independent engine, someone else's transmission'

Volkswagen Marine (very cool, IMHO but smallest is 40 hp) see:
http://www.vw-m.de/index.php?L=1&id=10
Lombardini

There's one completely independent (engine and transmission):

Yanmar

It's interesting to note that Westebeke markets both the Mitsubishi
(under their banner) and the Kubota (under the Universal banner). The
Mitsubishi/Westerbeke is thir 'flagship' and is about 20% more
expensive than the Universal. One might decuce that either the
Mitsubishi is a 'better' engine than the Kubota, or that Westerbeke
takes more "care' in the marinization of the Mitsu...

I've seen the Phasor at various boat shows and was impressed by their
marinization - stainless steel exhaust riser, silicon hoses, decent
sized alternator as standard equipment. For prices, visit a major
boat show where all of these guys exhibit - play one off the other

MW
Los Angeles

So, is Honda selling Chinese engines, or did Honda sell off an old
production line to China?





On Nov 22, 7:34 am, Larry wrote:
"Sir Thomas of Cannondale" wrote innews:R9h1j.18212$701.1027@trndny08:

Who knows.

I don't think those labels make any difference any more. Manufacturers
aren't really manufacturers any more, just brokers for obscure
manufacturer contractors noone ever heard of.

Case in point. I had a Honda EM5000X 5.5KW genset. It had a slant-
cylinder 11HP OHV 4-stroke engine on it that said HONDA all over it.
Honda made the whole thing, generator and all, painted Honda red......and
quite expensive because of it. It was a great generator, too!

But, roaming inside Pep Boys looking for something, I stumbled upon a
whole rack of Chinese generators from manufacturers I couldn't even
pronounce. I saw a familiar shaped engine on a 6KW Chinese model and
took a closer look. There sat my HONDA 11hp OHV 4-stroke
engine....EXACTLY what was on my Honda genset....at 1/4 the price! Where
the HONDA genset had HONDA stamped into the aluminum block....it was
blank on this engine. There were unused motor mounts on this block that
HONDA used to mount the motor to the frame. It had the same carb, same
valve cover without HONDA stamped into it, same everything except the
name.

Just like electronics, the company whos name is emblazoned on the cabinet
is only the broker for the manufacturer in Foo Man Chu you never will
hear of. Chuck Hung Lo Manufacturing and Storm Door, Foo Man Chu, PRC.

Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;

wrote:

So, is Honda selling Chinese engines, or did Honda sell off an old
production line to China?


Or did a Chinese company make castings from a Honda? Or is a company
that contracts with Honda running a "midnight production line" or are
they selling off the defects?

A few years ago I was seriously considering the Chinese Honda knockoff
(the one discussed here that's yellow instead of red) and wondering if
the potential repair hassle was worth saving a few hundred bucks. Then
a friend called asking if I wanted a good deal with a Honda dealer and
the choice became clear.

On a different but similar front, my sewing machine was made on the same
production line as the Sailrite, but not to their standards. Sailrite
shut down all the "zig-zag/walking foot" variants like mine. I've
talked to Matt Grant a few times, and while he's happy to sell me parts
and give a bit of advice, he won't do repairs.