On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:47:35 GMT, "Sir Thomas of Cannondale"
wrote:


"Larry" wrote in message
.. .
"Sir Thomas of Cannondale" wrote in
news:R9h1j.18212$701.1027@trndny08:

Who knows.


I don't think those labels make any difference any more. Manufacturers
aren't really manufacturers any more, just brokers for obscure
manufacturer contractors noone ever heard of.
Quite a bit cut

Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;

================================================= ================================

Larry ,, you once again make sound points. I am at the "just looking" stage
so I'm able to look, think, decide.
One funny quirt of the diesel marine engine market; there are no prices on
their web sites. Take a look at Beta.
They have just about everything and anything a boat owner would ever need to
know when thinking about or actually
doing/installing a repower. But NO PRICES. Nope. It always says "call
this xxxx number for a price". I find this very strange.

I wonder if it is because they use a Kubota motor and just marine it.

I think I understand the "marine changes" part but now I'm not sure.

What if a boat owner just bought a Kubota motor, like the one that Beta
uses. What is the difference between the Kubota and the
marine Beta. I realize that the motor will need a heat exchanger,
alternator, etc.

Do you know?

Any other well thought out ideas?

Thanks


In Thailand it is quite common to find Kubota engines in boats. There
is a shop just down the road that builds them. The ones here come,
second hand, from Japan, get a water cooled manifold installed
(usually) and a long propeller shaft and are mounted on open fishing
boats.

I did ask the builder how they ran and he said that they seemed to
last for ever.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:35:13 -0500, jeff wrote:

wrote:

So, is Honda selling Chinese engines, or did Honda sell off an old
production line to China?


Or did a Chinese company make castings from a Honda? Or is a company
that contracts with Honda running a "midnight production line" or are
they selling off the defects?

A few years ago I was seriously considering the Chinese Honda knockoff
(the one discussed here that's yellow instead of red) and wondering if
the potential repair hassle was worth saving a few hundred bucks. Then
a friend called asking if I wanted a good deal with a Honda dealer and
the choice became clear.

On a different but similar front, my sewing machine was made on the same
production line as the Sailrite, but not to their standards. Sailrite
shut down all the "zig-zag/walking foot" variants like mine. I've
talked to Matt Grant a few times, and while he's happy to sell me parts
and give a bit of advice, he won't do repairs.

Here in Thailand there is an engine named a "Robin" that is an exact
copy of a Honda and about 1/2 - 2/3 the cost. I talked to an engine
repair shop about whether to buy a Robin or a Honda and they
recommended the Robin.

Now, cost is a big issue with Thais so I don't know whether the
recommendation was based on service life or initial cost but as they
looked identical and these small air cooled engines are basically a
throw away item it probably doesn't matter.

The Robin and Honda engines appear to be exactly the same engine
except for the name decal..

On a different subject the "Sailrite" zig-zag machine was a standard
Brother machine that they re-labeled and sold in a "portable box"
rather then the standard commercial machine table. I bought the
identical model in Singapore for less then half Sailrite's price and
built my own cabinet. Good machine.




Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

I talked to an engine
repair shop about whether to buy a Robin or a Honda and they
recommended the Robin.

Uh, sure they did. If it's a cheap knock-off and it breaks then that REPAIR
shop will get more business.

Captain Roger ..

Interesting ... as I goofed around looking at diesels, the dollar problem
became "real". Most of the diesels are
manufactured overseas. Beta=England. Yanmar=Japan, I think.

The price of a 16hp Beta in England? About 4,000 pounds sterling. That
works out to something like $8,244, I think.

As the dollar goes down down down ... how will anyone afford any of the
parts, engines, etc made offshore.

Wouldn't you think an American manufacturer of diesel engines could build a
small diesel such as the Kubota/Beta 16hp

Even the Chinese money is going up compared to the dollar!

Hello fellow sailors .. we are going broke.

At the present rate of US spending, no savings, the war ,, etc... how does
one say "soup".

==

Roger,, I may still sell my boat. Not sure. As long as I own her, I must
take care of her.

===





"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
So you're going to keep the boat? Good move I think. It looked like a
great boat when I saw it and I think you would find something smaller
disappointing when you actually started sailing it. Docking might be
easier but the waves will be the same size and that is a very comfortable
boat.

It's hard for me to imagine putting anything in but a Yanmar considering
what a great engine I have in my boat. That's emotion however. As
pointed out elsewhere, the Yanmar of 1980 could be a very different
animal. Today's Yanmar could be from anywhere although I've heard nothing
even slightly negative about them. A friend was going to go with a Beta
for his repower. I tried to get him to take a closer look at Yanmar but
everything he sent me on Beta and the quality of their service and support
looked great. I couldn't see any reason to try to change his mind.

No diesel is going to work very hard in a sailboat and with the amount of
sailing you do. The "best" choice is probably secondary to ease of
conversion and how well it fits in. Don't make the mistake of putting in
more horsepower than the prop can use. If you don't feel underpowered
with the A4, put in the same or slightly less for a diesel.

--
Roger Long

Captain Roger .. is your Yanmar a 2 cylinder diesel?

I should remember,, but my brain is off until 2008.

Have you ever heard of a Phasor diesel? I came across one of these.

I certainaly am no expert .. but it looked like a copy of the Beta motor.

I think Phasor even uses the same Kubota block.

==
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
So you're going to keep the boat? Good move I think. It looked like a
great boat when I saw it and I think you would find something smaller
disappointing when you actually started sailing it. Docking might be
easier but the waves will be the same size and that is a very comfortable
boat.

It's hard for me to imagine putting anything in but a Yanmar considering
what a great engine I have in my boat. That's emotion however. As
pointed out elsewhere, the Yanmar of 1980 could be a very different
animal. Today's Yanmar could be from anywhere although I've heard nothing
even slightly negative about them. A friend was going to go with a Beta
for his repower. I tried to get him to take a closer look at Yanmar but
everything he sent me on Beta and the quality of their service and support
looked great. I couldn't see any reason to try to change his mind.

No diesel is going to work very hard in a sailboat and with the amount of
sailing you do. The "best" choice is probably secondary to ease of
conversion and how well it fits in. Don't make the mistake of putting in
more horsepower than the prop can use. If you don't feel underpowered
with the A4, put in the same or slightly less for a diesel.

--
Roger Long

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 17:44:03 -0500, "Bill Kearney"
wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote:

I talked to an engine
repair shop about whether to buy a Robin or a Honda and they
recommended the Robin.

Uh, sure they did. If it's a cheap knock-off and it breaks then that REPAIR
shop will get more business.

I sure wish you had quoted the whole of my message. It would make both
of us look less like fools. Please reread the portion of the original
message you neglected to quote, below.

quote
Here in Thailand there is an engine named a "Robin" that is an exact
copy of a Honda and about 1/2 - 2/3 the cost. I talked to an engine
repair shop about whether to buy a Robin or a Honda and they
recommended the Robin.

Now, cost is a big issue with Thais so I don't know whether the
recommendation was based on service life or initial cost but as they
looked identical and these small air cooled engines are basically a
throw away item it probably doesn't matter
unquote


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 17:44:03 -0500, "Bill Kearney"
wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote:

I talked to an engine
repair shop about whether to buy a Robin or a Honda and they
recommended the Robin.

Uh, sure they did. If it's a cheap knock-off and it breaks then that REPAIR
shop will get more business.

The Robin is a Subaru brand. Subaru boxer engines out of cars power
some light homebuilt aircraft. Next to no Honda engines are used for
that purpose

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

On 2007-11-24 14:02:45 -0500, "Roger Long" said:

"Brian Whatcott" wrote

The Robin is a Subaru brand. Subaru boxer engines out of cars power
some light homebuilt aircraft. Next to no Honda engines are used for
that purpose

Subaru engines originally started out as aircraft engines and then were
reworked for cars so it's a lot easier to backtrack than to convert an
engine designed for autos into an aircraft engine. Any small plane
pilot who looks under a Subaru hood for the first time usually says,
"Hey!"

This is the first I've heard of Subaru engines being used for light
aircraft. VW yes, Suby no. Always wondered, as I *did* have that "Hey!"
moment -- which is one reason I'm on my second Subaru.

Astounds me that the first water-cooled aircraft engine I heard about
was in, I believe, Voyager -- the first plane to fly around the world
without refueling, and that was only 20-25 years ago.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 11:01:25 -0600, Brian Whatcott
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 17:44:03 -0500, "Bill Kearney"
wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote:

I talked to an engine
repair shop about whether to buy a Robin or a Honda and they
recommended the Robin.

Uh, sure they did. If it's a cheap knock-off and it breaks then that REPAIR
shop will get more business.

The Robin is a Subaru brand. Subaru boxer engines out of cars power
some light homebuilt aircraft. Next to no Honda engines are used for
that purpose

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

The robin may be a Subaru brand but as I stated they look exactly like
a Honda 5 HP air cooled single cylinder "lawn mower" engine. I doubt
that they are used in home built aircraft.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 19:54:43 -0500, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I think they were actually air cooled when they were aircraft engines.
Different cylinders.

I think the VW bug engine, another horizontally opposed configuration, also
started out as an aircraft engine and they are often converted to that use.

The original volkswagen engine was designed at the same time as the
car and was not an aircraft engine (at least in original intent). I've
seen copies of the original Porsche designed "People's Car" design
drawings and certainly the engine design was part of the original
design. And, remember that the first Porsche's had very thinly
disguised volkswagen engines installed.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)