Elizabeth,

Sorry to hear about your "learning" experience so far, and good for
you for having the determination to keep going.

I would suggest taking the small boat instruction available near you.
Small boats handle like big ones, but respond quicker. And since they
are 1 person boats, you (and your daughters) learn how to be the
captain for real. Once you can sail a small boat the bigger boat will
be easy. Docking isn't as hard as it looks, if you take it slow and
easy.

Learn the basic rules of the road. Don't worry about the complicated
ones.

If you can take a week long course, do it. Me and my girlfriend did a
week a Jworld when I started taking her sailing, it was a very
thorough course (http://www.jworldschool.com/).

Sail the small boats, then keep at it.
Todd

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:19:16 -0000, wrote:

I've been reading this newsgroup for the past year while rehabbing a
24', swing-keel sailboat, and the information that I've gleaned has
been invaluable. I'm hoping now that you can provide me with some
direction in obtaining the instruction I'll require to sail this boat.
Here is my scenario:

My husband is a life-long boater, with extensive experience in both
sailing and powerboating. My experience as a boater is primarily that
of a powerboat passenger -- in other words, minimal. We rehabbed a
boat to sail as a family, a boat into which I have personally put a
couple hundred hours worth of work. I asked my husband if my daughters
(pre-teen) and I should take sailing lessons, and he replied that he
could teach us everything that we needed to know. Well, my husband's
idea of sailing instruction was barking orders at his wife and kids,
and then yelling at us when we didn't do it fast enough or confidently
enough. After a handful of fsailing excursions ending with our
daughters huddling in tears in the cabin, he told us that he would
never sail with us again and that we'd ruined sailing for him. I think
the primary issue for me and my daughters is comfort level on the
boat. The experiences are new to us, and it's difficult to, for
example, to be immediately comfortable hoisting the mainsail in
moderate - heavy chop (we do it, just not with great speed).

The boat was something that we were looking forward to as a family. I
won't teach my kids that it's ok to quit at this just because their
father has determined that we're "incompetent" on the boat. I'm
determined to prove him wrong. The problem is that he won't help us.
Here's where I need some direction. There are a lot of boating classes
out there, and the pros and cons of each are difficult to sort
through. The sailing classes that I've located in our immediate area
use tiny little one person sailboats for instruction. This seems
inappropriate for us, since we've all read up on and experienced,
albeit to a small extent, the basic principles and logistics sailing
our particular boat. The biggest challenge we face at the moment is
getting the boat in and our of our slip at the marina... without that
ability, we're stuck in our lawn chairs hanging out at the dock. It
seems as though my immediate needs include boat handling, safety,
rules of the water and such.

I know that there is a lot to learn, and I don't expect to accomplish
all of this in a hurry, but I could sure use some help getting
pointed in the right direction. My only goal for the end of the season
is to get us out of the marina so that we can at least drop anchor and
swim a little. We don't have to be sailing pros within a few month's
time... just one small success will tide us over until next season. If
we manage to accomplish more, then that's all the better.

I currently have the electronic version of America's Boating Course at
home and I'm working my way through it as a first step. We are located
on the Illinois-Wisconsin border. What's your recommendation for the
next step? Thanks in advance for your time and advice.

Elizabeth

While it probably isn't of much direct help, let me offer my own
experiences in trying to teach my wife to drive.

We went through exactly the same cycles that your family is. Me
directing and her trying to comply. Ultimately shrieking and tears.

One of the main reasons is, I think, lack of communication, "Push in
the clutch!" "Clutch?"" Does he mean "grab it?" "Shift into first
gear" "Is that first one to the left, or first on the right?"

I was in the military and got reassigned overseas for a short period.
Because of the kids, schools, etc., it was decided that I would do an
unaccompanied tour and the wife & kids would stay at home.

While I was gone my wife went out and enrolled in a driver training
course, graduated, got her license and was driving around like a demon
when I returned home.In fact she was driving well enough that I didn't
mind ridding shotgun with her.

That is one family's tory.

If it is impossible to take lessons then another alternative is group
discussions BEFORE whatever it is, is done. Raising anchors can be
explained in steps, "You stand by until you see the anchor coming out
of the water and then holler, "STOP". "You take that hose; the one on
the left, there, and wash the mud off the chain." If y'all know what
you're supposed to do there is less screaming and hollering.

Hang in there and remember, sailing IS fun!






Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:19:16 -0000, wrote:

....The sailing classes that I've located in our immediate area
use tiny little one person sailboats for instruction. This seems
inappropriate for us, since we've all read up on and experienced,
albeit to a small extent, the basic principles and logistics sailing
our particular boat. The biggest challenge we face at the moment is
getting the boat in and our of our slip at the marina... without that
ability, we're stuck in our lawn chairs hanging out at the dock. It
seems as though my immediate needs include boat handling, safety,
rules of the water and such.
....
Elizabeth


Sailing a small dinghy on all points of sail would be a very good
basis for something bigger. It's easy to suppose your husband is a
jerk, but the story is quite familiar from reading about wives and
daughters attempting to learn to drive a car by instruction from
Dad....
It often gives miserable results, though it can work out.

You badly need an instructor whom you are paying, who will treat you
and the kids as a customer - i.e. with civility.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

I have nothing to do with this organization. But, they list 4 places in
Illinois and 6 place in Wisconsin that offer lessons.

http://www.american-sailing.com/find...ng_school.html

I'm "Tom" and I'm a recovering yeller. I've been soft spoken for 2
decades, six weeks, 3 days, two hours and... Or something like that.
Anyway, speaking from experience I can attest that getting your
husband to stop shouting will make everyone including him much, much
happier. I don't know what will work for him but I remember what
worked for me. I moved from the mainland where I had been involved in
some serious small boat racing to Hawaii where the racing and crewing
were very much more casual than I was used to and I became very
frustrated and started yelling at folks without even realizing it. A
couple of weeks into the season one of the long term crew took me
aside and said "listen, I know you're a good sailor and I'm not but I
get yelled at at work and I will not come out sailing if you're going
to yell at me, too." I was appalled at my behavior which I really had
been incompletely aware of (I thought I was just giving instructions)
and I truly have been soft spoken since then. Perhaps your husband
isn't aware of just how offensive his behavior is. I'd suggest being
very direct about telling him.

Leaning to sail is a long term project. A sailing school can give you
a nice start on it, but unless you have an unusual aptitude for
sailing it will be years before you are competent and it takes a
lifetime to get good. Nevertheless, it is easy for learning sailors
and more experienced sailors to have a good time together while out
sailing. I've sailed very extensively around the Pacific with my girl
friend who was a total non-sailor when we stated and is still working
the left side of the leaning curve. She is a fantastic partner and
knows how to stand watch. I don't ask for anything more. I often
take non-sailors out sailing (I just took a couple out this afternoon,
in fact) and since they keep on asking to come back I'm guessing they
enjoy it. The trick is that the person in charge has to be able to
work the boat himself and then allow or perhaps encourage his guests
to do the jobs they are competent to do. Requests made to the guests
are just that. They should be made in a speaking voice and followed
by a question mark. eg. "would you like to hold the tiller while I
set the mainsail?" A "no" shouldn't phase the skipper. Or at least
that's how it works on my boats and I've enjoyed the results.

-- Tom.

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:19:16 -0000, wrote:

much snippage

I know that there is a lot to learn, and I don't expect to accomplish
all of this in a hurry, but I could sure use some help getting
pointed in the right direction. My only goal for the end of the season
is to get us out of the marina so that we can at least drop anchor and
swim a little. We don't have to be sailing pros within a few month's
time... just one small success will tide us over until next season. If
we manage to accomplish more, then that's all the better.

I currently have the electronic version of America's Boating Course at
home and I'm working my way through it as a first step. We are located
on the Illinois-Wisconsin border. What's your recommendation for the
next step? Thanks in advance for your time and advice.

Elizabeth

Look for nearby sailboat charter companies - many of them will also
offer sailing classes in their boats, or will know someone who does
teach in keelboats.

Racing fanatics will claim that you must start in dinghies, but if you
don't intend to become a serious racer, you can learn almost as well
in a keel boat, and you will learn things like operating under power,
reefing, anchoring, and using winches, all of which are essential when
operating a cruising-size sailboat, but are irrelevant in dinghies.


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

On 2007-08-01 12:19:16 -0400, said:

I've been reading this newsgroup for the past year while rehabbing a
24', swing-keel sailboat, and the information that I've gleaned has
been invaluable. I'm hoping now that you can provide me with some
direction in obtaining the instruction I'll require to sail this boat.
Here is my scenario: snip of pretty standard "Captain Bligh")

"Dad" teaching the wife and kids is often a debacle. HE knows what he
meant to say, but doesn't know how to get you to know.

Dinghy instructions would be *quite* valuable to you individually. I'd
rather take a dinghy sailor as crew than someone with the same amount
of time in a keel boat. Knowing how to steer the boat and keep the
sails pulling is best learned on a small boat, and the skills transfer
easily.

As far as getting competent at getting in and out of the slip,
absolutely nothing beats doing it. See if a dockmate can accompany you
without Dad a time or two. Spend the time learning how to go forwards,
backwards, sidewards, stopping by something soft in all those
directions.

Heck, motor over to some place to go swimming and relaxing between
drills. Toss the anchor and raise and lower the sails a bunch of times.
Make your mistakes with a disinterested person, not necessarily a
formal instructor (though many will give you lessons on your own boat).

I have sorta the opposite problem: Pat's more competent than most
bareboaters and I love it when she takes the helm, but compares her
skills to my 30 years of racing and cruising and "forgets" how much she
knows. To make sure she keeps her skills up, I have to "pass out" every
once in a while to force her to take the tiller to get us home.

Best thing for her (and perhaps you) would be to spend a week or so at
the boat with a "crazy" girlfriend to egg her on to taking the boat out
while I'm at work.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/