I recently bought a boat with the following head setup: Groco toilet with
Jabsco electric conversion model 29200-0120. I have to take it apart to
replace a leaky base gasket, but was wondering if putting a manual pump back
on would give more reliable service. Other than the leak, the electric unit
seems to work fine. Does anyone have observations/experience as to the
quality and effectiveness of this particular piece of equipment?

Also, as the unit contains a macerator, which I assume manual pumps do not,
I was wondering if this would have any benefit with regard to reducing the
likelihood of the holding tank pump-out tube becoming blocked with solids
when trying to pump the tank.

Thanks,
Steve H.

Steve wrote:
I recently bought a boat with the following head setup: Groco toilet with
Jabsco electric conversion model 29200-0120. I have to take it apart to
replace a leaky base gasket, but was wondering if putting a manual pump back
on would give more reliable service. Other than the leak, the electric unit
seems to work fine. Does anyone have observations/experience as to the
quality and effectiveness of this particular piece of equipment?


The only thing left of the previous Groco toilet is the bowl...it's been
converted to the Jabsco. It's not the best electric toilet for the
money...for one thing, it draws a whopping 26 amps a flush, compared to
16 used by most other raw water macerating electric toilets...for
another it costs the same or more as much higher quality conversions,
but has half or less the average lifespan. But you have it, and it's
working now. So if all it needs is a gasket, I'd keep it till it needs
more serious repair. However, as long as you have to take it apart to
the replace the gasket, I wouldn't just stop there, I'd put a complete
rebuild kit in it.

Also, as the unit contains a macerator, which I assume manual pumps do not,

No...they don't.

I was wondering if this would have any benefit with regard to reducing the
likelihood of the holding tank pump-out tube becoming blocked with solids
when trying to pump the tank.

Large quantities of macerated solids and TP are less likely to clog the
toilet discharge hose..otoh, they can clog a macerator. However, I've
never heard of solids ever preventing a tank from being pumped out. A
wad of the wrong toilet paper can (and will also clog up a
macerator)...a tampon, condom, paper towel or anything else that
shouldn't have been flushed down ANY marine toilet can...an accumulation
of sludge can...but solid waste is 75% water to begin with...and it's
broken up and "mooshed" as it goes through the head TO the tank..so
solids are about 90% dissolved by the time they get into the tank. They
don't give any pumpout capable of emptying a tank at all any problem
whatever in pumping out the tank, whether the waste in the tank has been
macerated or not.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Steve wrote:
I recently bought a boat with the following head setup: Groco toilet with
Jabsco electric conversion model 29200-0120. I have to take it apart to
replace a leaky base gasket, but was wondering if putting a manual pump back
on would give more reliable service. Other than the leak, the electric unit
seems to work fine. Does anyone have observations/experience as to the
quality and effectiveness of this particular piece of equipment?


The only thing left of the previous Groco toilet is the bowl...it's been
converted to the Jabsco. It's not the best electric toilet for the
money...for one thing, it draws a whopping 26 amps a flush, compared to
16 used by most other raw water macerating electric toilets...for
another it costs the same or more as much higher quality conversions,
but has half or less the average lifespan. But you have it, and it's
working now. So if all it needs is a gasket, I'd keep it till it needs
more serious repair. However, as long as you have to take it apart to
the replace the gasket, I wouldn't just stop there, I'd put a complete
rebuild kit in it.

Also, as the unit contains a macerator, which I assume manual pumps do not,

No...they don't.

I was wondering if this would have any benefit with regard to reducing the
likelihood of the holding tank pump-out tube becoming blocked with solids
when trying to pump the tank.

Large quantities of macerated solids and TP are less likely to clog the
toilet discharge hose..otoh, they can clog a macerator. However, I've
never heard of solids ever preventing a tank from being pumped out. A
wad of the wrong toilet paper can (and will also clog up a
macerator)...a tampon, condom, paper towel or anything else that
shouldn't have been flushed down ANY marine toilet can...an accumulation
of sludge can...but solid waste is 75% water to begin with...and it's
broken up and "mooshed" as it goes through the head TO the tank..so
solids are about 90% dissolved by the time they get into the tank. They
don't give any pumpout capable of emptying a tank at all any problem
whatever in pumping out the tank, whether the waste in the tank has been
macerated or not.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Thanks, Peggy. That was a wonderfully detailed reply. You're not kidding
about the current draw. I guess that explains the dimming lights during
flushes. It will get replaced with something better whenever it really
fails. BTW, FWIW, I incorrectly stated that the base gasket was leaking,
but it's actually the bottom waste pump gasket, which is only available in
the repair kit.

Steve H.

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
I recently bought a boat with the following head setup: Groco toilet
with
Jabsco electric conversion model 29200-0120. I have to take it apart to
replace a leaky base gasket, but was wondering if putting a manual pump
back
on would give more reliable service. Other than the leak, the electric
unit
seems to work fine. Does anyone have observations/experience as to the
quality and effectiveness of this particular piece of equipment?


The only thing left of the previous Groco toilet is the bowl...it's been
converted to the Jabsco. It's not the best electric toilet for the
money...for one thing, it draws a whopping 26 amps a flush, compared to
16 used by most other raw water macerating electric toilets...for
another it costs the same or more as much higher quality conversions,
but has half or less the average lifespan. But you have it, and it's
working now. So if all it needs is a gasket, I'd keep it till it needs
more serious repair. However, as long as you have to take it apart to
the replace the gasket, I wouldn't just stop there, I'd put a complete
rebuild kit in it.

Also, as the unit contains a macerator, which I assume manual pumps do
not,

No...they don't.

I was wondering if this would have any benefit with regard to reducing
the
likelihood of the holding tank pump-out tube becoming blocked with
solids
when trying to pump the tank.

Large quantities of macerated solids and TP are less likely to clog the
toilet discharge hose..otoh, they can clog a macerator. However, I've
never heard of solids ever preventing a tank from being pumped out. A
wad of the wrong toilet paper can (and will also clog up a
macerator)...a tampon, condom, paper towel or anything else that
shouldn't have been flushed down ANY marine toilet can...an accumulation
of sludge can...but solid waste is 75% water to begin with...and it's
broken up and "mooshed" as it goes through the head TO the tank..so
solids are about 90% dissolved by the time they get into the tank. They
don't give any pumpout capable of emptying a tank at all any problem
whatever in pumping out the tank, whether the waste in the tank has been
macerated or not.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Thanks, Peggy. That was a wonderfully detailed reply. You're not kidding
about the current draw. I guess that explains the dimming lights during
flushes. It will get replaced with something better whenever it really
fails. BTW, FWIW, I incorrectly stated that the base gasket was leaking,
but it's actually the bottom waste pump gasket, which is only available in
the repair kit.

Steve H.

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
I recently bought a boat with the following head setup: Groco toilet
with
Jabsco electric conversion model 29200-0120. I have to take it apart to
replace a leaky base gasket, but was wondering if putting a manual pump
back
on would give more reliable service. Other than the leak, the electric
unit
seems to work fine. Does anyone have observations/experience as to the
quality and effectiveness of this particular piece of equipment?


The only thing left of the previous Groco toilet is the bowl...it's been
converted to the Jabsco. It's not the best electric toilet for the
money...for one thing, it draws a whopping 26 amps a flush, compared to
16 used by most other raw water macerating electric toilets...for
another it costs the same or more as much higher quality conversions,
but has half or less the average lifespan. But you have it, and it's
working now. So if all it needs is a gasket, I'd keep it till it needs
more serious repair. However, as long as you have to take it apart to
the replace the gasket, I wouldn't just stop there, I'd put a complete
rebuild kit in it.

Also, as the unit contains a macerator, which I assume manual pumps do
not,

No...they don't.

I was wondering if this would have any benefit with regard to reducing
the
likelihood of the holding tank pump-out tube becoming blocked with
solids
when trying to pump the tank.

Large quantities of macerated solids and TP are less likely to clog the
toilet discharge hose..otoh, they can clog a macerator. However, I've
never heard of solids ever preventing a tank from being pumped out. A
wad of the wrong toilet paper can (and will also clog up a
macerator)...a tampon, condom, paper towel or anything else that
shouldn't have been flushed down ANY marine toilet can...an accumulation
of sludge can...but solid waste is 75% water to begin with...and it's
broken up and "mooshed" as it goes through the head TO the tank..so
solids are about 90% dissolved by the time they get into the tank. They
don't give any pumpout capable of emptying a tank at all any problem
whatever in pumping out the tank, whether the waste in the tank has been
macerated or not.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Steve wrote:
Thanks, Peggy. That was a wonderfully detailed reply. You're not kidding
about the current draw. I guess that explains the dimming lights during
flushes.


Yep, it would. But it shouldn't do that...that's a sign of an
electrical issue. Some things to check out:

Electric toilets should always be on their own dedicated circuit, shared
with nothing else. If the boat's PO didn't save the manual (what passes
for one, anyway) that has the electric specs in it when he installed it,
pull one off the Jabsco website at http://www.jabsco.com and make sure
that he used the right wire size for the distance distance from the
battery (measured round trip, not one way). Put volt meter on it while
flushing and make sure it's getting a full 12v. If not, check
connections, and check the battery to make sure it's putting out a full
12v...the battery may be weak, or not being fully charged (which would
reveal a whole new can of worms...boats are like that).

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Steve wrote:
Thanks, Peggy. That was a wonderfully detailed reply. You're not kidding
about the current draw. I guess that explains the dimming lights during
flushes.


Yep, it would. But it shouldn't do that...that's a sign of an
electrical issue. Some things to check out:

Electric toilets should always be on their own dedicated circuit, shared
with nothing else. If the boat's PO didn't save the manual (what passes
for one, anyway) that has the electric specs in it when he installed it,
pull one off the Jabsco website at http://www.jabsco.com and make sure
that he used the right wire size for the distance distance from the
battery (measured round trip, not one way). Put volt meter on it while
flushing and make sure it's getting a full 12v. If not, check
connections, and check the battery to make sure it's putting out a full
12v...the battery may be weak, or not being fully charged (which would
reveal a whole new can of worms...boats are like that).

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Thanks, Peggie. Actually, there are other issues with the 12v system in the
boat. I know one battery is very weak, and don't think the battery charger
is doing its job either. Haven't had time to do further checking yet. The
PO did keep most of the manuals/documents for the various systems, including
the toilet. I will check how the head is wired. I've got your GRBO book ,
and will read it soon.

Thanks again,
Steve H.

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
Thanks, Peggy. That was a wonderfully detailed reply. You're not
kidding
about the current draw. I guess that explains the dimming lights during
flushes.


Yep, it would. But it shouldn't do that...that's a sign of an
electrical issue. Some things to check out:

Electric toilets should always be on their own dedicated circuit, shared
with nothing else. If the boat's PO didn't save the manual (what passes
for one, anyway) that has the electric specs in it when he installed it,
pull one off the Jabsco website at http://www.jabsco.com and make sure
that he used the right wire size for the distance distance from the
battery (measured round trip, not one way). Put volt meter on it while
flushing and make sure it's getting a full 12v. If not, check
connections, and check the battery to make sure it's putting out a full
12v...the battery may be weak, or not being fully charged (which would
reveal a whole new can of worms...boats are like that).

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Thanks, Peggie. Actually, there are other issues with the 12v system in the
boat. I know one battery is very weak, and don't think the battery charger
is doing its job either. Haven't had time to do further checking yet. The
PO did keep most of the manuals/documents for the various systems, including
the toilet. I will check how the head is wired. I've got your GRBO book ,
and will read it soon.

Thanks again,
Steve H.

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
Thanks, Peggy. That was a wonderfully detailed reply. You're not
kidding
about the current draw. I guess that explains the dimming lights during
flushes.


Yep, it would. But it shouldn't do that...that's a sign of an
electrical issue. Some things to check out:

Electric toilets should always be on their own dedicated circuit, shared
with nothing else. If the boat's PO didn't save the manual (what passes
for one, anyway) that has the electric specs in it when he installed it,
pull one off the Jabsco website at http://www.jabsco.com and make sure
that he used the right wire size for the distance distance from the
battery (measured round trip, not one way). Put volt meter on it while
flushing and make sure it's getting a full 12v. If not, check
connections, and check the battery to make sure it's putting out a full
12v...the battery may be weak, or not being fully charged (which would
reveal a whole new can of worms...boats are like that).

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Coincidentally, I just replaced the 5 year old conversion kit in our aft head a
couple months ago on my 1998 Beneteau 411. It was not just a gasket that was
failing, it was deterioration of the plastic. Not a repair kit for *that*
problem. Probably should have gone back to the manual pump, but I spent nearly
$400 for the identical replacement at West Marine...ouch...! Well...at least it
was an easy replacement, and didn't have to pay anyone to do the job for
me.... :/
Yes, they do draw a LOT of current plus they're noisy, but my wife brings too
many guests aboard that don't have a clue about how to use the manual pump Our
forward head is still manual...and I personally would advise against having an
electric head unless the boat has 2 heads so that at least 1 would remain
manual.
Howard.

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:14:57 GMT, Peggie Hall wrote:

; Steve wrote:
; I recently bought a boat with the following head setup: Groco toilet with
; Jabsco electric conversion model 29200-0120. I have to take it apart to
; replace a leaky base gasket, but was wondering if putting a manual pump back
; on would give more reliable service. Other than the leak, the electric unit
; seems to work fine. Does anyone have observations/experience as to the
; quality and effectiveness of this particular piece of equipment?
;
;
; The only thing left of the previous Groco toilet is the bowl...it's been
; converted to the Jabsco. It's not the best electric toilet for the
; money...for one thing, it draws a whopping 26 amps a flush, compared to
; 16 used by most other raw water macerating electric toilets...for
; another it costs the same or more as much higher quality conversions,
; but has half or less the average lifespan. But you have it, and it's
; working now. So if all it needs is a gasket, I'd keep it till it needs
; more serious repair. However, as long as you have to take it apart to
; the replace the gasket, I wouldn't just stop there, I'd put a complete
; rebuild kit in it.
;
; Also, as the unit contains a macerator, which I assume manual pumps do not,
;
; No...they don't.
;
; I was wondering if this would have any benefit with regard to reducing the
; likelihood of the holding tank pump-out tube becoming blocked with solids
; when trying to pump the tank.
;
; Large quantities of macerated solids and TP are less likely to clog the
; toilet discharge hose..otoh, they can clog a macerator. However, I've
; never heard of solids ever preventing a tank from being pumped out. A
; wad of the wrong toilet paper can (and will also clog up a
; macerator)...a tampon, condom, paper towel or anything else that
; shouldn't have been flushed down ANY marine toilet can...an accumulation
; of sludge can...but solid waste is 75% water to begin with...and it's
; broken up and "mooshed" as it goes through the head TO the tank..so
; solids are about 90% dissolved by the time they get into the tank. They
; don't give any pumpout capable of emptying a tank at all any problem
; whatever in pumping out the tank, whether the waste in the tank has been
; macerated or not.
;
; Peggie
; ----------
; Peggie Hall
; Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
; Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
; Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
; http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html