On 2007-04-15 21:06:33 -0400, "John Reimer"
said:

BUT, what I still don't get, is why couldn't the three gents onboard the
Ouzo just avoid the Bilbao altogether?

I mean the question is literal, what would cause them to NOT be able to
avoid her, I'm not blaming the victim here.

Which way do you turn when a big ship is altering course and may be
turning to pass you on the "far" side?

We're based on the Chesapeake just about on a channel. I mean, we
literally have to look left and right as we clear our breakwaters, and
the ships aren't going nearly 19 knots (most times). Avoiding the heavy
metal is a fact of life for us.

Down by the Annapolis Bay bridge, we had one of those "pucker" moments:
We'd been sailing down out of the channels, but had to cross a channel
at one point to get to another safe area. Just then, a ship came up
through the bridge.

And they started turning.

Towards us.

Which channel would they take? The one in front of us or the one behind?

Being chicken, I fired up and steered directly across the channel to
shallow (for them) water at the edge of the Bay. After a few minutes,
we could see they were steering towards the channel behind...

but we didn't know for quite a while what their intended new course would be.

Ouzo had no such santuary in open water. It could well be that they did
as I would do and beat a path as far west as I could -- and Pride of
Bilbao kept on turning --west-- which meant that Ouzo did exactly the
wrong thing in 20-20 hindsight. Holding their course may well have been
their best option, or maybe beating a path east was right.

But the report sure has me re-thinking my choice of photo-grey lenses
if I'm sailing at night. I'm lucky that my distance vision is lightly
affected by age, so I'll likely take my glasses off when the sun goes
down.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

God knows the world needs it as most are so damned
negative by their mid thirties.


I'm fairly negative, today...(c;

Today is "Income Tax Day" in America. I sent the Illuminati War Mongers
some of my income so they can attack Iran, soon. I wouldn't have, but they
have some really impressive new weapons they can use on us if we don't do
exactly what we are told.

George Orwell had the date wrong.....

Larry
--

Vic Smith wrote in
:

And also that the ferry had no AIS capability.


Was it over 300 gross tonnes? That's a violation of international maritime
law, now. The owner should be hung! (We keel hauled them, but the new
boats have those damned screws and the haulees kept fouling them.)

Larry
--

Larry wrote:
Peter Hendra wrote in
:

God knows the world needs it as most are so damned
negative by their mid thirties.


I'm fairly negative, today...(c;

Today is "Income Tax Day" in America. I sent the Illuminati War Mongers
some of my income so they can attack Iran, soon. I wouldn't have, but they
have some really impressive new weapons they can use on us if we don't do
exactly what we are told.

George Orwell had the date wrong.....

He had much more than that wrong. The primary thing he had wrong was how
close of tabs government would keep on citizens. People cry all the time
about this law and that law, but fail to take into account how strictly
the laws are actually enforced. You mention taxes.

I have gone about seven years now without paying my income taxes. Yes, I
do owe them, yes it is a significant amount, no I'm not using some
verbal trick. I owe taxes, I haven't paid them. It's against the law.
But, if not for me actually informing an IRS agent that I haven't paid
them, I probably still would be going relatively un-noticed. Time after
time I would receive notices and even phone calls but then they would
just let it slide. When this guy did find out did they rush me to jail?
No. Threaten me with jail? No. Threaten me at all? Yeah, well a little.
"We're going to have to do something if this isn't paid soon." He said.
And then I was ignored for another year or two.

Having said all that let me say though that I agree with you in
principle. It would be better to have some type of government that
didn't have to coerce it's citizens into giving them money. Hopefully
soon someone will come up with a way to make something like that work.
Until then, the type of government we've got is the best anyone has come
up with, a far cry from "1984."

Stephen

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:44:32 +0000, Larry wrote:

Vic Smith wrote in
:

And also that the ferry had no AIS capability.



Not reading the report properly. That's a violation of international
maritime law, now. The poster should be hung!

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Ouzo_.pdf

(We keel hauled them, but the new
boats have those damned screws and the haulees kept fouling them.)

Larry

Stephen Trapani wrote:
Larry wrote:

He had much more than that wrong. The primary thing he had wrong was how
close of tabs government would keep on citizens. People cry all the time
about this law and that law, but fail to take into account how strictly
the laws are actually enforced. You mention taxes.

I have gone about seven years now without paying my income taxes. Yes, I
do owe them, yes it is a significant amount, no I'm not using some
verbal trick. I owe taxes, I haven't paid them. It's against the law.
But, if not for me actually informing an IRS agent that I haven't paid
them, I probably still would be going relatively un-noticed. Time after
time I would receive notices and even phone calls but then they would
just let it slide. When this guy did find out did they rush me to jail?
No. Threaten me with jail? No. Threaten me at all? Yeah, well a little.
"We're going to have to do something if this isn't paid soon." He said.
And then I was ignored for another year or two.
snip
Stephen

Whoa Stephen,

The wheels of government grind slowly, but they
grind exceedingly fine. The amount you owe them
must be way down on the list, because otherwise
you'd already probably be out on parole after a
couple of warning years in the federal pen.

Do you move around a lot by any chance? I would
not count on getting away with this long term.

Don W.

Stephen Trapani wrote in
:

Larry wrote:
Peter Hendra wrote in
:

God knows the world needs it as most are so damned
negative by their mid thirties.


I'm fairly negative, today...(c;

Today is "Income Tax Day" in America. I sent the Illuminati War
Mongers some of my income so they can attack Iran, soon. I wouldn't
have, but they have some really impressive new weapons they can use
on us if we don't do exactly what we are told.

George Orwell had the date wrong.....

He had much more than that wrong. The primary thing he had wrong was
how close of tabs government would keep on citizens. People cry all
the time about this law and that law, but fail to take into account
how strictly the laws are actually enforced. You mention taxes.

I have gone about seven years now without paying my income taxes. Yes,
I do owe them, yes it is a significant amount, no I'm not using some
verbal trick. I owe taxes, I haven't paid them. It's against the law.
But, if not for me actually informing an IRS agent that I haven't paid
them, I probably still would be going relatively un-noticed. Time
after time I would receive notices and even phone calls but then they
would just let it slide. When this guy did find out did they rush me
to jail? No. Threaten me with jail? No. Threaten me at all? Yeah, well
a little. "We're going to have to do something if this isn't paid
soon." He said. And then I was ignored for another year or two.

Having said all that let me say though that I agree with you in
principle. It would be better to have some type of government that
didn't have to coerce it's citizens into giving them money. Hopefully
soon someone will come up with a way to make something like that work.
Until then, the type of government we've got is the best anyone has
come up with, a far cry from "1984."

Stephen


They won't take you to court because there IS NO LAW taxing wages and
labor. You have got to see the documentary "America - Freedom to
Fascism":
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zsZO6G7dfpI
This is the full movie on YouTube and WELL worth your time.....
Aaron Russo is a famous Hollywood producer who just went to ask to see
the law....noone could produce. He exposes the Federal Reserve for what
it is.. Most Americans think the Fed is part of the gummit....which it's
not.

go watch it...amazing movie.
No comspiracy nut at all...a great history lesson.

Larry
--

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 22:06:24 +0100, Goofball_star_dot_etal
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:44:32 +0000, Larry wrote:

Vic Smith wrote in
m:

And also that the ferry had no AIS capability.



Not reading the report properly. That's a violation of international
maritime law, now. The poster should be hung!

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Ouzo_.pdf

Maybe "capability" was the wrong word.
"2.6.6 AIS
AIS is being carried by an increasing number of yachts, partly to
assist in their being more visible. Had Ouzo carried AIS it would have
made no difference to the outcome as AIS information was not displayed
on the radar of Pride of Bilbao. This situation should improve as AIS
is being integrated into more ships’ systems in the future."

So what am I missing? And who is guilty?
If it's me I choose being keel-hauled - under a canoe, in Key West.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote in
:


http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Ouzo_.pdf

Maybe "capability" was the wrong word.
"2.6.6 AIS
AIS is being carried by an increasing number of yachts, partly to
assist in their being more visible. Had Ouzo carried AIS it would have
made no difference to the outcome as AIS information was not displayed
on the radar of Pride of Bilbao. This situation should improve as AIS
is being integrated into more ships’ systems in the future."

So what am I missing? And who is guilty?
If it's me I choose being keel-hauled - under a canoe, in Key West.

--Vic


AIS info, on most ships, is displayed on a seperate screen which simply
list the ship name, range and bearing.
If the watch officer doesn't stop to see that display and correlate that
info with what's on his radar, targets can be missed.
Ships are slowly updating to ECDIS where the radar, chart, AIS, GPS info
are all overlayed on one computer screen.....one stop shopping.

otn

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:55:33 GMT, otnmbrd
wrote:

Vic Smith wrote in
:


http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Ouzo_.pdf

Maybe "capability" was the wrong word.
"2.6.6 AIS
AIS is being carried by an increasing number of yachts, partly to
assist in their being more visible. Had Ouzo carried AIS it would have
made no difference to the outcome as AIS information was not displayed
on the radar of Pride of Bilbao. This situation should improve as AIS
is being integrated into more ships’ systems in the future."

So what am I missing? And who is guilty?
If it's me I choose being keel-hauled - under a canoe, in Key West.

--Vic


AIS info, on most ships, is displayed on a seperate screen which simply
list the ship name, range and bearing.
If the watch officer doesn't stop to see that display and correlate that
info with what's on his radar, targets can be missed.
Ships are slowly updating to ECDIS where the radar, chart, AIS, GPS info
are all overlayed on one computer screen.....one stop shopping.

Thanks for clearing that up. Since the report makes it clear the
Bilbao paid no heed to AIS, and makes only weak reference to it, as
in "This situation should improve" in some unspecified "future," it
sounds to me that any sailor must assume a merchant isn't seeing his
AIS signal. Which brings us back to your advice on keeping your
distance, which is the best advice.

--Vic