You should read the full report
http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/.../2007/ouzo.cfm -
it's very sobering, with good information on night vision and ship-to-yacht
interactions.

The Pride of Bilbao did have AIS equipment ( JRC JHS-180, whatever that
means). However "Had Ouzo carried AIS it would have made no difference to
the outcome as AIS information was not displayed on the radar of Pride of
Bilbao." (p 30)

The radar reflector on Ouzo sounds like yours, Peter - "but, in practice,
its overall performance is poor, and it is now evident that at best there
was only a 50% probability that the ship would have been able to detect Ouzo
on the radar at close range."- read the report for a full explanation.

Sal's Dad


Full AIS transponders.....the sooner, the better for everyone.

If you can afford a yacht, you can afford a small AIS transponder. Noone
HAS to die. Ouzo would have had the same size target on the AIS screen in
that ferry as a big aircraft carrier. No need, any more, to rely on some
plastic reflective ball to make you a tiny blip on someone's 1957 tube
radar screen, fading in and out as the mast lays over. EVERY yacht going
to sea in this traffic needs a full AIS transponder running 24/7.

There's too much big traffic, today, to go on without it.

Larry
Larry,
Great idea. I have been in situations where the ships can visually see
me but I do not appear on their radar screen - sea state and waves
etc. - I have the old metal "forget what it's called" aluminium sphere
permanently swinging at my cross trees.

"Sal's Dad" wrote in
:

The radar reflector on Ouzo sounds like yours, Peter - "but, in
practice, its overall performance is poor, and it is now evident that
at best there was only a 50% probability that the ship would have been
able to detect Ouzo on the radar at close range."- read the report for
a full explanation.



All of this might have been avoided if the Ouzo had violated all the
stupid 1920's lighting regulations of those tiny little light bulbs on
your mastheads, bows and sterns and had an incredibly bright strobe light
on top of his mast(s), the kind you see on aircraft. NOONE on the bridge
of any ship could miss a horizon-focused high intensity strobe's blinding
flashes, even in the fog.

LED marker lights my ass. Everyone should have a very high intensity
strobe on top of each mast they can turn on to wake their lazy asses up
on those big bridges....coupled to some serious whooping audio horns
wouldn't hurt, either.

No boat lighting is anywhere NEAR bright enough. I wonder if Ouzo had a
high intensity search light available. I've played 2,000,000 cp across a
few bridges to get their attention when they won't answer the damned
radio calls. There should be a handheld quartz-iodine searchlight in
every cockpit, even in the daytime. You can't help but notice them for
10 miles shined in your face!

Larry
--

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 11:54:19 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:



You forgot something very important. How about a low-voltage alarm in
case your battery goes flat in the middle of the night from all the
excess draw from all your electronics and alarms? ;-) I suppose I use
different tactics. My Allied Seawind 32 only draws four and a half feet.
I use this to my advantage and always try to anchor in shallow water
where a ship couldn't run me down if it tried.

Wilbur Hubbard

Good point Wilbur, I have one that has a different sound to all the
others. It can be set to any voltage level.

As to shallow draft, mine is also 4' 6" even though it is 49 ft in
length. However, it is not at anchor that I worry about being run down
by a ship. It is out on the ocean blue.

Incidently, shallow draft is great, isn't it. I had the option of
building with a draft of either 4' 6" or 6 foot. Around New Zealand, 6
ft would be fine but in parts of Australia, especially the navigable
rivers and the parts of Asia that I wanted to travel, a shallower
draft has advantages. What we enjoy is arriving at a crowded
anchorage where the close in spots have been taken and nipping behind
those and dropping anchor closer to the beach.

cheers
Peter

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:00:22 +0000, Larry wrote:

Thanks for the support Larry.

I have started to use a strobe attracting attention - to let them know
that I'm there. As I have the mast down - repainting, re-rigging etc I
have migrated it to my masthead where it sits above the nav and all
round white.

The interesting thing is, I have got a lot of criticism from other
yachtees who say that it is not "regulation" is a distress signal that
ships will detour to investigate and so on. Someone even called me
"selfish and arrogant in flaunting the rules". I wonder if any of
these people have spent much time on passage, especially at night as
they are commonly used to mark ends of fishing nets and long-lines as
well as being displayed by fishing boats having a braek.

I have used it when lying to my para anchor, on passage to ensure that
I am seen when ships come close. Not a single ship has condemned me
using it when I have spoken to them on the radio. Several have said
that that are pleased that they can see me.

I noticed that Aquasignal now have a combined all round white and
strobe below a tricolour (Please note the proper spelling!!). It looks
identical (on the shop shelf) to the one without the strobe.

cheers
Peter-

All of this might have been avoided if the Ouzo had violated all the
stupid 1920's lighting regulations of those tiny little light bulbs on
your mastheads, bows and sterns and had an incredibly bright strobe light
on top of his mast(s), the kind you see on aircraft. NOONE on the bridge
of any ship could miss a horizon-focused high intensity strobe's blinding
flashes, even in the fog.

LED marker lights my ass. Everyone should have a very high intensity
strobe on top of each mast they can turn on to wake their lazy asses up
on those big bridges....coupled to some serious whooping audio horns
wouldn't hurt, either.

No boat lighting is anywhere NEAR bright enough. I wonder if Ouzo had a
high intensity search light available. I've played 2,000,000 cp across a
few bridges to get their attention when they won't answer the damned
radio calls. There should be a handheld quartz-iodine searchlight in
every cockpit, even in the daytime. You can't help but notice them for
10 miles shined in your face!

Larry

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:19:13 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

Larry wrote:
Molesworth wrote in news:ukmole-
:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/6547267.stm

Full AIS transponders.....the sooner, the better for everyone.

Bull. The commercial boats don't mind knocking a few of us over. To
them, we're sea trash.

That has not been my general experience, especially in the open ocean.
I have had large container ships slow down from their 26 knots and
wanting to chat on the VHF. Often they ask if there is anything you
need and we have had offers of fuel, water, fresh vegetables etc. We
find the Chinese ones to be the best in this regard. Quite a few
Captains are also boatees.

Once, when anchored in the Brisbane river near a ferry wharf, my wife
spent most of the day at the top of the mast (Yep, and she dives over
the side to clear the prop too - women have more natural subcutaneous
adipose tissue (fat) and therefore do not feel the cold as much as a
man). The fast river cat commuter ferries all took a wide detour at
slow speed to the other side of the river. I found later that they
radioed each other that there was " a woman up the mast and to take
care" I wonder if they would have if it were me up there.

cheers
Peter

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

The interesting thing is, I have got a lot of criticism from other
yachtees who say that it is not "regulation" is a distress signal that
ships will detour to investigate and so on. Someone even called me
"selfish and arrogant in flaunting the rules". I wonder if any of
these people have spent much time on passage, especially at night as
they are commonly used to mark ends of fishing nets and long-lines as
well as being displayed by fishing boats having a braek.


If is saves one life, to hell with the rules. If they get curious...they
can TURN ON THEIR RADIOS AND ASK!....which is what I wanted them to do in
the first place.

Speaking of radios, do you chat with ships you can see out beyond land on
Channel 13? Most sailors treat that radio as some kind of plague they're
required to carry. I'm an old ham operator, so like to chat. Coming
home from Florida, off the GA coast a hundred miles or so, we had 14
active "checkins" to "The Channel 13 Ship Net" at 1AM on the midwatch.
One of the 1st Mates wanted to trade me Lionheart for a containership,
but I had to turn him down...(c; They're really BORED TO TEARS up on
those tall bridges in the dark, I found. Having a chat on 13 perked
everyone, including me all red-eyed and a little seasick in the slop.
Oddly, though we could see lots of other yachts, both motor and sail, we
couldn't raise them on 13 or 16 or get them to respond to our calls for a
chat. Maybe it was that old "hermit syndrome" so may yachties have,
trying to leave the whole world on another planet. You know them, I'm
sure.

The big 12V quartz-iodine 55W searchlight with the big reflector can also
make anyone stand up and take notice.....especially if they are headed
right for you. After a quick sweep across to make a big flash pointed at
them, shine the beast up on their side of the mainsail, lighting up the
whole sail rigging like day so they can't miss that you are a SAILBOAT
and expect to be treated like same. Deck lights on the spreaders can't
hold a candle to the beast lighting up the sail for visibility to some
idiot banker on his Hatteras 58. Lionheart looks like the tail of a
Delta 757 taxiing its tail billboard around....(c;

Larry
--
Don't just sit in the dark and wait to die! LIGHT UP THE DAMNED BRIDGE
OF HIS SHIP!

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:54:06 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote:

Sorry - typo - My boat is 40 foot in length, not 49
Peter

Good point Wilbur, I have one that has a different sound to all the
others. It can be set to any voltage level.

As to shallow draft, mine is also 4' 6" even though it is 49 ft in
length. However, it is not at anchor that I worry about being run down
by a ship. It is out on the ocean blue.

Incidently, shallow draft is great, isn't it. I had the option of
building with a draft of either 4' 6" or 6 foot. Around New Zealand, 6
ft would be fine but in parts of Australia, especially the navigable
rivers and the parts of Asia that I wanted to travel, a shallower
draft has advantages. What we enjoy is arriving at a crowded
anchorage where the close in spots have been taken and nipping behind
those and dropping anchor closer to the beach.

cheers
Peter

Peter Hendra wrote:
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:54:06 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote:

Sorry - typo - My boat is 40 foot in length, not 49
Peter
Good point Wilbur, I have one that has a different sound to all the
others. It can be set to any voltage level.

As to shallow draft, mine is also 4' 6" even though it is 49 ft in
length. However, it is not at anchor that I worry about being run down
by a ship. It is out on the ocean blue.

Incidently, shallow draft is great, isn't it. I had the option of
building with a draft of either 4' 6" or 6 foot. Around New Zealand, 6
ft would be fine but in parts of Australia, especially the navigable
rivers and the parts of Asia that I wanted to travel, a shallower
draft has advantages. What we enjoy is arriving at a crowded
anchorage where the close in spots have been taken and nipping behind
those and dropping anchor closer to the beach.

cheers
Peter

Is Wilburs 32 the dink for his 68 footer?
g

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 23:41:21 +0000, Larry wrote:

Larry,
You are a real social butterfly.

No, I have never called on channel 13 - what is it internationally
used for? We/I usually call on Channel 16 at sea.

I also have used the spotlight on the mainsail. I just hope that
someone is looking my way at the time. Some of them do come a bit
close at times though which is somewjhat disconcerting. WSe have found
that if the "owner" gets on the radio, we get good responses but that
is not a hard and fast rule.

You're right about them being bored to tears. It must be hell going
faster than 5 knots and making more than 120 miles per day. They never
have to worry much about wind direction or sea state not that we worry
overly about it. Ther's not much you can do when you are there. They
do however take advantage and note of currents which can save/cost
them extra time and fuel. But this is compensated for by having a
regular cook and all the comforts of home.

Peter

If is saves one life, to hell with the rules. If they get curious...they
can TURN ON THEIR RADIOS AND ASK!....which is what I wanted them to do in
the first place.

Speaking of radios, do you chat with ships you can see out beyond land on
Channel 13? Most sailors treat that radio as some kind of plague they're
required to carry. I'm an old ham operator, so like to chat. Coming
home from Florida, off the GA coast a hundred miles or so, we had 14
active "checkins" to "The Channel 13 Ship Net" at 1AM on the midwatch.
One of the 1st Mates wanted to trade me Lionheart for a containership,
but I had to turn him down...(c; They're really BORED TO TEARS up on
those tall bridges in the dark, I found. Having a chat on 13 perked
everyone, including me all red-eyed and a little seasick in the slop.
Oddly, though we could see lots of other yachts, both motor and sail, we
couldn't raise them on 13 or 16 or get them to respond to our calls for a
chat. Maybe it was that old "hermit syndrome" so may yachties have,
trying to leave the whole world on another planet. You know them, I'm
sure.

The big 12V quartz-iodine 55W searchlight with the big reflector can also
make anyone stand up and take notice.....especially if they are headed
right for you. After a quick sweep across to make a big flash pointed at
them, shine the beast up on their side of the mainsail, lighting up the
whole sail rigging like day so they can't miss that you are a SAILBOAT
and expect to be treated like same. Deck lights on the spreaders can't
hold a candle to the beast lighting up the sail for visibility to some
idiot banker on his Hatteras 58. Lionheart looks like the tail of a
Delta 757 taxiing its tail billboard around....(c;

Larry

"Sal's Dad" wrote in message
...
You should read the full report
http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/.../2007/ouzo.cfm -
it's very sobering, with good information on night vision and
ship-to-yacht interactions.

Thanks for the link, it's a very educational read, but also sad, would much
rather have them be telling their cautionary story themselves..

A personally carried EPIRB, check, but didn't realize a crotch strap could
be that important, and will never look at a radar reflector the same way
again. And hydrostatically launched life raft, hmm, looks more appealing
now.

BUT, what I still don't get, is why couldn't the three gents onboard the
Ouzo just avoid the Bilbao altogether?

I mean the question is literal, what would cause them to NOT be able to
avoid her, I'm not blaming the victim here.

Assuming they were on watch and not below, in clear conditions (though
night), would it have been that difficult to see the hugely larger Bilbao
before getting so close? Even if all her running lights were off, there
were thousands of passengers on her (or a lot) so there would have been at
least the common area lighting on. Why couldn't the Ouzo see her?

Of course, if they did see her, I guess I can understand if they had lost
steerage, but that doesn't seem likely given the scenario outlined. Or does
it?

Those three gents had way, way more experience than me, so I'm trying to
understand the missing piece: I know the factors that contributed to
Bilbao's actions (or lack thereof before and after).

Why did Ouzo allow her to get so close in the first place?

John

--

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