"DSK" wrote in message
...

Maxprop wrote:

FWIW almost any boat that didn't have major leaks is likely to survive a
really bad storm, provided she doesn't encounter a really bad combination
of waves by chance. OTOH, if the luck is really bad, nothing is going to
survive no matter how heavy.

From the damage sustained by that boat, it was assumed that the waves had
rolled it several times, or perhaps pitchpoled the boat. Are you implying
that, say, a Hunter 30 built during the same general period would have fared
as well?

A friend had one for years, and while I used to blow him a lot of crap
about it, it really was a boat of some merit. In light air it could be
terribly frustrating. Under 10kts. it generally sailed along at 3kts. or
so and just didn't seem to 'free up.' It was not particularly weatherly
in such winds, leading one to use the diesel to weather in anything under
15kts.


Your friend must have had good sails, a lightly loaded boat, and been a
good sailor. I've never seen one move at all under sail when there were't
whitecaps.

You must not have had much experience with them. His was an owner-finished
boat. The interior was gorgeous, but no concession was made to light weight
joinerwork. Everything was teak and overbuilt below as well. My friend's
sails were new when I first sailed with him, and he indeed was a fine
sailor, and the boat moved very well in 15kts.

However when the wind blew (15kts. and above) it came into its element.
We often beat longer, faster boats, such as C&C 34s and 36s to weather,
and on beam or close reaches.

?? ??
You're joking. Or the other boats were anchored.

No joke. If I had a dollar for every time we passed faster, leaner boats
under those conditions, especially around 20kts. or better, I wouldn't be
rich, but I could probably buy a new pair of Topsiders. Above 15kts. the
lightweight boats reduce sail. The Wetsnail (sloop, in this case) carried
full sail to 40kts. with my friend at the helm. I typically reduced sail a
bit sooner, but then I prefer to keep a boat on its feet.


Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Maxprop wrote:

FWIW almost any boat that didn't have major leaks is likely to survive a
really bad storm, provided she doesn't encounter a really bad combination
of waves by chance. OTOH, if the luck is really bad, nothing is going to
survive no matter how heavy.

From the damage sustained by that boat, it was assumed that the waves had
rolled it several times, or perhaps pitchpoled the boat. Are you implying
that, say, a Hunter 30 built during the same general period would have
fared as well?

A friend had one for years, and while I used to blow him a lot of crap
about it, it really was a boat of some merit. In light air it could be
terribly frustrating. Under 10kts. it generally sailed along at 3kts.
or so and just didn't seem to 'free up.' It was not particularly
weatherly in such winds, leading one to use the diesel to weather in
anything under 15kts.


Your friend must have had good sails, a lightly loaded boat, and been a
good sailor. I've never seen one move at all under sail when there were't
whitecaps.

You must not have had much experience with them. His was an
owner-finished boat. The interior was gorgeous, but no concession was
made to light weight joinerwork. Everything was teak and overbuilt below
as well. My friend's sails were new when I first sailed with him, and he
indeed was a fine sailor, and the boat moved very well in 15kts.

However when the wind blew (15kts. and above) it came into its element.
We often beat longer, faster boats, such as C&C 34s and 36s to weather,
and on beam or close reaches.

?? ??
You're joking. Or the other boats were anchored.

No joke. If I had a dollar for every time we passed faster, leaner boats
under those conditions, especially around 20kts. or better, I wouldn't be
rich, but I could probably buy a new pair of Topsiders. Above 15kts. the
lightweight boats reduce sail. The Wetsnail (sloop, in this case) carried
full sail to 40kts. with my friend at the helm. I typically reduced sail
a bit sooner, but then I prefer to keep a boat on its feet.


Max


Just think of all that excess loading on the sails and rigging.

"Gilligan" wrote in message

Just think of all that excess loading on the sails and rigging.

. . . which for a Wetsnail is no problem. Everything is overbuilt,
including the rigging. Most W32 owners specify their sails in the very
heavy fabric range.

Max

FWIW almost any boat that didn't have major leaks is likely to survive a
really bad storm, provided she doesn't encounter a really bad combination
of waves by chance. OTOH, if the luck is really bad, nothing is going to
survive no matter how heavy.


Maxprop wrote:
From the damage sustained by that boat, it was assumed that the waves had
rolled it several times, or perhaps pitchpoled the boat. Are you implying
that, say, a Hunter 30 built during the same general period would have fared
as well?


If the hatches & ports didn't break in, sure. Why wouldn't
it? The Hunter 30 would be more likely to spend more time
upside-down though, if rolled.

Unless you carefully gather data on how long abandoned boats
survive in hurricane+ conditions, you're just indulging in
idle name-calling.


Your friend must have had good sails, a lightly loaded boat, and been a
good sailor. I've never seen one move at all under sail when there were't
whitecaps.


You must not have had much experience with them.

Depnds on what you call "much." There have been a few
Westsails around most of the places I've sailed, and I've
had a few friends who owned them.


?? ??
You're joking. Or the other boats were anchored.


No joke. If I had a dollar for every time we passed faster, leaner boats
under those conditions, especially around 20kts. or better, I wouldn't be
rich, but I could probably buy a new pair of Topsiders.

Well, my experience has been that crab-crusher sailors like
to make this claim, but for every time they outsail another
boat there are two basic facts
1- the other boat is either much smaller or has some good
reason for being slow, like 5 years of bottom growth
2- there are 50 other examples of being outsailed by similar
vessels, which the crab-crusher sailor neglects to observe
or mention.

For example, I was good friends with a couple who onwed a
very very nice Thomas Gilmer designed full keeler. They
insisted it could outsail "any" fin-keeler in higher winds.
They based this on have once outrun an O'Day of the mid-20'
size range. I sailed against them in a Morgan 27 one day of
30+ winds and literally could run rings around them. I was
afraid they would never speak to me again, but I think the
social convention was that they pretended it never happened
and I could still be friends as long as I was gentlemanly
enough to not mention it, either.

I also observed them dropping behind many other less racy
production fin keelers of similar size. Same with Westsails
although I've never made as direct a test of it.


... Above 15kts. the
lightweight boats reduce sail. The Wetsnail (sloop, in this case) carried
full sail to 40kts.

And it still has a fat cross section and rather low righting
moment per pound of displacement.

... I typically reduced sail a
bit sooner, but then I prefer to keep a boat on its feet.


It's true that many hull forms don't mind heeling as much as
boxy fin-keelers do (sails like a dinghy), but that doesn't
make them any faster.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King