"KLC Lewis" wrote
The average boater buys for "typical sailing conditions,"

Nah, the average boater buys for sitting at the dock with a
beer (not that there's anything wrong with that).


then lives in
fear of getting caught out in anything stronger than 15 knots. I'll take
the Wetsnail over a modern putty boat any day of the week, and twice on
Sundays.


It's a matter of taste. Skill and outfitting make a bigger
difference. I love to sail on windy days, and lighter/faster
boats are more fun.

The average sailor doesn't get much enough experience on
heavy days to feel comfortable, and rather few practice the
stuff you need to do.


Capt. JG wrote:
Out here, the typical sailing conditions are 20kts or more, and it's not
that unusual to see over 30kts in the summer months. I dread the days when
they're under 10kts, although it does make for excellent scenary/photography
for guests.


And the funny thing is, your area was the birthplace of the
ultra-light displacement flyer. I agree with Bob though,
different tasks require different tools.

DSK

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Capt. JG wrote:

The question comes as to whether the W32 is overbuilt or grotesquely
overbuilt. An off the rack Caliber or Island Packet is probably just as
capable, more fun to sail and a lot more pleasing to be aboard much of
the time. Of course I'm a Long Island Sound sailor where such boats,
even Cape Dory's are thought of as motorsailors. Finally...does one buy
a vessel for typcial sailing conditions or the Perfect Storm?


Robert B
Beneteau 35s5
NY

The average boater buys for "typical sailing conditions," then lives in
fear of getting caught out in anything stronger than 15 knots. I'll take
the Wetsnail over a modern putty boat any day of the week, and twice on
Sundays.

Out here, the typical sailing conditions are 20kts or more, and it's not
that unusual to see over 30kts in the summer months. I dread the days
when they're under 10kts, although it does make for excellent
scenary/photography for guests.


And yet, the average wind in SF is lighter than in NY at LaGuardia or in
Boston at Logan. Of course, SF has its strongest wind in the summer while
we have it in the winter.

http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/...d/avgwind.html

You're talking about airports. I'm talking about the slot.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:12:47 -0500, DSK wrote:

And the funny thing is, your area was the birthplace of the
ultra-light displacement flyer. I agree with Bob though,
different tasks require different tools.

Actually the most famous ULDBs came from the Santa Cruz area which is
a bit south from SF Bay and has much lighter conditions.

And the funny thing is, your area was the birthplace of the
ultra-light displacement flyer.


Wayne.B wrote:
Actually the most famous ULDBs came from the Santa Cruz area which is
a bit south from SF Bay and has much lighter conditions.


OK, I stand corrected. However, ULDB's are quite popular on
SF Bay, they're for more than just drifting around

And FWIW I agree about the optimism with regard to speed.
The Westsail is one of the slower crab-crushers and while
it's a common crab-crusher fantasy to say "My boat is faster
than all those lightweight clorox bottles, once the wind
gets up enough for REAL sailing," my experience has been
that as long as the LW clorox sailor is competent & not
anchored, the fast boat is always faster... upwind,
downwind... blow high, blow low. OTOH it's nice to not
bounce so much in waves.

DSK

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

For a solo sailor, or a not-overly-large couple,
the boat is perfect.


I agree to some degree, but your boat is really quite capable of an
ocean voyage, is also very solidly built and is a LOT more fun to sail.

The question comes as to whether the W32 is overbuilt or grotesquely
overbuilt. An off the rack Caliber or Island Packet is probably just as
capable, more fun to sail and a lot more pleasing to be aboard much of
the time.

Those would also be one hell of a lot more expensive. The nicest aspect of
W32s these days is their prices.

Of course I'm a Long Island Sound sailor where such boats,
even Cape Dory's are thought of as motorsailors. Finally...does one buy
a vessel for typcial sailing conditions or the Perfect Storm?

That was my point in a nutshell. I wouldn't own a boat of the W32's nature,
primarily because most of my sailing is daysailing and week-long cruising at
this point. But the Passport 40 we've been looking at would still be my
choice for offshore work.

Max

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

The average boater buys for "typical sailing conditions," then lives in
fear of getting caught out in anything stronger than 15 knots. I'll take
the Wetsnail over a modern putty boat any day of the week, and twice on
Sundays.

The competent sailor has confidence in his abilities and knows his
limitations. The "average boater" you describe above is a typical Catalina
30 owner who never really learned to sail and doesn't know enough about
heavy weather sailing to be anything but a hazard to himself and his
passengers. His Catalina is stout enough to handle 70kts and big waves, but
he most likely isn't. If he knew what he was doing, he wouldn't need an
overbuilt boat like the Wetsnail.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

The average boater buys for "typical sailing conditions," then lives in
fear of getting caught out in anything stronger than 15 knots. I'll take
the Wetsnail over a modern putty boat any day of the week, and twice on
Sundays.

The competent sailor has confidence in his abilities and knows his
limitations. The "average boater" you describe above is a typical
Catalina 30 owner who never really learned to sail and doesn't know enough
about heavy weather sailing to be anything but a hazard to himself and his
passengers. His Catalina is stout enough to handle 70kts and big waves,
but he most likely isn't. If he knew what he was doing, he wouldn't need
an overbuilt boat like the Wetsnail.

Max


So are you saying that the "average" sailor is also a competent one?

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Maxprop wrote:

FWIW almost any boat that didn't have major leaks is likely to survive a
really bad storm, provided she doesn't encounter a really bad combination
of waves by chance. OTOH, if the luck is really bad, nothing is going to
survive no matter how heavy.

From the damage sustained by that boat, it was assumed that the waves had
rolled it several times, or perhaps pitchpoled the boat. Are you implying
that, say, a Hunter 30 built during the same general period would have fared
as well?

A friend had one for years, and while I used to blow him a lot of crap
about it, it really was a boat of some merit. In light air it could be
terribly frustrating. Under 10kts. it generally sailed along at 3kts. or
so and just didn't seem to 'free up.' It was not particularly weatherly
in such winds, leading one to use the diesel to weather in anything under
15kts.


Your friend must have had good sails, a lightly loaded boat, and been a
good sailor. I've never seen one move at all under sail when there were't
whitecaps.

You must not have had much experience with them. His was an owner-finished
boat. The interior was gorgeous, but no concession was made to light weight
joinerwork. Everything was teak and overbuilt below as well. My friend's
sails were new when I first sailed with him, and he indeed was a fine
sailor, and the boat moved very well in 15kts.

However when the wind blew (15kts. and above) it came into its element.
We often beat longer, faster boats, such as C&C 34s and 36s to weather,
and on beam or close reaches.

?? ??
You're joking. Or the other boats were anchored.

No joke. If I had a dollar for every time we passed faster, leaner boats
under those conditions, especially around 20kts. or better, I wouldn't be
rich, but I could probably buy a new pair of Topsiders. Above 15kts. the
lightweight boats reduce sail. The Wetsnail (sloop, in this case) carried
full sail to 40kts. with my friend at the helm. I typically reduced sail a
bit sooner, but then I prefer to keep a boat on its feet.


Max

"katy" wrote in message
...

Was that John O. from Grand Rapids?

No. Larry Sullivan.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Maxprop wrote:

FWIW almost any boat that didn't have major leaks is likely to survive a
really bad storm, provided she doesn't encounter a really bad combination
of waves by chance. OTOH, if the luck is really bad, nothing is going to
survive no matter how heavy.

From the damage sustained by that boat, it was assumed that the waves had
rolled it several times, or perhaps pitchpoled the boat. Are you implying
that, say, a Hunter 30 built during the same general period would have
fared as well?

A friend had one for years, and while I used to blow him a lot of crap
about it, it really was a boat of some merit. In light air it could be
terribly frustrating. Under 10kts. it generally sailed along at 3kts.
or so and just didn't seem to 'free up.' It was not particularly
weatherly in such winds, leading one to use the diesel to weather in
anything under 15kts.


Your friend must have had good sails, a lightly loaded boat, and been a
good sailor. I've never seen one move at all under sail when there were't
whitecaps.

You must not have had much experience with them. His was an
owner-finished boat. The interior was gorgeous, but no concession was
made to light weight joinerwork. Everything was teak and overbuilt below
as well. My friend's sails were new when I first sailed with him, and he
indeed was a fine sailor, and the boat moved very well in 15kts.

However when the wind blew (15kts. and above) it came into its element.
We often beat longer, faster boats, such as C&C 34s and 36s to weather,
and on beam or close reaches.

?? ??
You're joking. Or the other boats were anchored.

No joke. If I had a dollar for every time we passed faster, leaner boats
under those conditions, especially around 20kts. or better, I wouldn't be
rich, but I could probably buy a new pair of Topsiders. Above 15kts. the
lightweight boats reduce sail. The Wetsnail (sloop, in this case) carried
full sail to 40kts. with my friend at the helm. I typically reduced sail
a bit sooner, but then I prefer to keep a boat on its feet.


Max


Just think of all that excess loading on the sails and rigging.