"Capt. JG" wrote in news:12eh93v7qls6u04
@corp.supernews.com:

Has anyone done this? It seems like the PVC just contributes to life line
degradation. If so, what was your source for the wire/fittings?

Since this question is being posted in rec.boats.CRUISING instead of a racing
forum I'll point out that life lines are also used as clothes lines and
there's no way that any woman that I know of would hang clothes on a SS line
that probably has specks of rust on it. You probably would get a lot of
chaffing from uncoated wire also.

-- Geoff

"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
...
"Capt. JG" wrote in news:12eh93v7qls6u04
@corp.supernews.com:

Has anyone done this? It seems like the PVC just contributes to life line
degradation. If so, what was your source for the wire/fittings?

Since this question is being posted in rec.boats.CRUISING instead of a
racing
forum I'll point out that life lines are also used as clothes lines and
there's no way that any woman that I know of would hang clothes on a SS
line
that probably has specks of rust on it. You probably would get a lot of
chaffing from uncoated wire also.

-- Geoff

So, it's a good new/bad news situation. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I found at
Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft quality. On the
same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering marked $1.49 per foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the (Pelican)
end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections to the
pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

Conversely West Marine are showing (Internet) as showing 304 Stainless Steel
1 X 19 Rigging Wire from $0.79 USD.


What's that term... 'swaging'??
I had the rigger at the Binnacle swage mine two years ago.
http://ca.binnacle.com/index.php?cPath=409_403

Thanks for the tip.
Not too far from the Binnacle is North Sail. They also do life lines. How
much did the Binnacle charged you for the swaging?
I'll check with them on my next trip, all I have to do is to be careful
about the new rule on the rotary;-)


"Don White" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I found
at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft quality. On
the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering marked $1.49 per
foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections to
the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

Conversely West Marine are showing (Internet) as showing 304 Stainless
Steel 1 X 19 Rigging Wire from $0.79 USD.


What's that term... 'swaging'??
I had the rigger at the Binnacle swage mine two years ago.
http://ca.binnacle.com/index.php?cPath=409_403

wrote:
Thanks for the tip.
Not too far from the Binnacle is North Sail. They also do life lines. How
much did the Binnacle charged you for the swaging?
I'll check with them on my next trip, all I have to do is to be careful
about the new rule on the rotary;-)


"Don White" wrote in message
...

wrote:

I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I found
at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft quality. On
the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering marked $1.49 per
foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections to
the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

Conversely West Marine are showing (Internet) as showing 304 Stainless
Steel 1 X 19 Rigging Wire from $0.79 USD.


What's that term... 'swaging'??
I had the rigger at the Binnacle swage mine two years ago.
http://ca.binnacle.com/index.php?cPath=409_403



I've only gone through that rotary once since the 'new traffic circle'
rules. The thing worked for over 35K trips a day for 50 years. You'd
think they leave it alone...the excuse..the occasional tourist or
visitor got confused.

Anyway...I had 'Jim' provide some hardware (pelican hooks etc...and one
lifeline. can't remember if it all came to $60 something..or $90 something.
The original owner of my Sandpiper 565 had ordered the complete lifeline
package from CL Boatworks but lost one lifeline overboard. That was
it..nothing ever installed until I bought the boat.

wrote
I'll check with them on my next trip, all I have to do is to be careful
about the new rule on the rotary;-)

Haven't been East for a while - What's the new rule on the rotary -
Starboard have right of way or Gross Tonnage rule?

lifelines

- 1x19 wire vs 7x7 plastic coated - In Europe, 1x19 plain wire is common
and practical - They call them guard rails. By way of an example:
http://www.s3i.co.uk/1x19PVC.php

Over here, we like the look of PVC coated wire.
http://www.bosunsupplies.com/product...?product=S0708

(There is a company that used to sell plastic covered lines with a fibre
core. They used a Norseman type end fitting. But they didn't look too strong
are hopefully no longer made.)

Either way (1x19 or 7x7), you need to buy end fittings and probably have
them machine swaged on. Even if you can use parts of your rigging screws and
pelican hooks, figure on at least $25.00 per fitting - This can add up,
especially if you have gates.

There are hand-crimp fittings that can be installed with a Nicopress tool -
Results don't look that good, especially when it's a DIY job.
http://www.bosunsupplies.com/product...ct=lifelinefit

Some older boats had chromed cast bronze end fittings that slid over the PVC
coated wire - all it takes to replace lifelines on these, is new wire and
copper nicopress stop fittings. May not be as strong as machine swaged
fittings, but thousands of boats still have these - including my own! Can't
find any reference to these on the web - may be a good reason?

Finally, a good reference to lifeline safety:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W62322A9D

Quote " Haven't been East for a while - What's the new rule on the rotary -
Starboard have right of way or Gross Tonnage rule?

It's not one-on-one behaviour any more, it's actually yield upon entry,"

Now: Drivers approaching the Armdale Rotary in Halifax now have to yield the
right of way to those already in the circle.

So driving into the rotary and getting out on Purcell's cove road to the
Binnacle at rush hour requires good visual approach!



"OldSailor" wrote in message
...

wrote
I'll check with them on my next trip, all I have to do is to be careful
about the new rule on the rotary;-)

Haven't been East for a while - What's the new rule on the rotary -
Starboard have right of way or Gross Tonnage rule?

lifelines

- 1x19 wire vs 7x7 plastic coated - In Europe, 1x19 plain wire is common
and practical - They call them guard rails. By way of an example:
http://www.s3i.co.uk/1x19PVC.php

Over here, we like the look of PVC coated wire.
http://www.bosunsupplies.com/product...?product=S0708

(There is a company that used to sell plastic covered lines with a fibre
core. They used a Norseman type end fitting. But they didn't look too
strong
are hopefully no longer made.)

Either way (1x19 or 7x7), you need to buy end fittings and probably have
them machine swaged on. Even if you can use parts of your rigging screws
and
pelican hooks, figure on at least $25.00 per fitting - This can add up,
especially if you have gates.

There are hand-crimp fittings that can be installed with a Nicopress
tool -
Results don't look that good, especially when it's a DIY job.
http://www.bosunsupplies.com/product...ct=lifelinefit

Some older boats had chromed cast bronze end fittings that slid over the
PVC
coated wire - all it takes to replace lifelines on these, is new wire and
copper nicopress stop fittings. May not be as strong as machine swaged
fittings, but thousands of boats still have these - including my own!
Can't
find any reference to these on the web - may be a good reason?

Finally, a good reference to lifeline safety:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W62322A9D

Dennis Pogson wrote:
wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I
found at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft
quality. On the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering
marked $1.49 per foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections
to the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

The practise in UK is to secure the SS lifelines with a SS shackle at the
pulpit and a cord lashing at the cockpit end. The cockpit end of the wire
terminates about 3 inches short of the stern pulpit with a SS eyebolt and is
lashed with as many turns of polyester (Dacron) cord as appropriate, bearing
in mind that it may be necessary to cut the lifelines with one stroke of a
sharp knife - usually about 6-8 turns is deemed satisfactory.

Dennis.

Question: I had previously thought that fastening one end of the
lifelines with some kind of non metallic rope LASHING (as is done with
all four lines, two each side of our 30+ year old Westerly Tiger) is to
avoid having a metallic 'shorted turn' around the boat that could
interfere with radio reception/direction finding etc. However the above
suggests it is for quick safe disconnection in an emergency? Or both?
Terry

"terry" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dennis Pogson wrote:
wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I
found at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft
quality. On the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering
marked $1.49 per foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections
to the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

The practise in UK is to secure the SS lifelines with a SS shackle at the
pulpit and a cord lashing at the cockpit end. The cockpit end of the wire
terminates about 3 inches short of the stern pulpit with a SS eyebolt and
is
lashed with as many turns of polyester (Dacron) cord as appropriate,
bearing
in mind that it may be necessary to cut the lifelines with one stroke of
a
sharp knife - usually about 6-8 turns is deemed satisfactory.

Dennis.

Question: I had previously thought that fastening one end of the
lifelines with some kind of non metallic rope LASHING (as is done with
all four lines, two each side of our 30+ year old Westerly Tiger) is to
avoid having a metallic 'shorted turn' around the boat that could
interfere with radio reception/direction finding etc. However the above
suggests it is for quick safe disconnection in an emergency? Or both?
Terry

I'm wondering what sort of emergency other than a capsize (turtle) would
necessitate cutting free lifelines.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"terry" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dennis Pogson wrote:
wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I
found at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft
quality. On the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering
marked $1.49 per foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections
to the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

The practise in UK is to secure the SS lifelines with a SS shackle at
the
pulpit and a cord lashing at the cockpit end. The cockpit end of the
wire
terminates about 3 inches short of the stern pulpit with a SS eyebolt
and is
lashed with as many turns of polyester (Dacron) cord as appropriate,
bearing
in mind that it may be necessary to cut the lifelines with one stroke of
a
sharp knife - usually about 6-8 turns is deemed satisfactory.

Dennis.

Question: I had previously thought that fastening one end of the
lifelines with some kind of non metallic rope LASHING (as is done with
all four lines, two each side of our 30+ year old Westerly Tiger) is to
avoid having a metallic 'shorted turn' around the boat that could
interfere with radio reception/direction finding etc. However the above
suggests it is for quick safe disconnection in an emergency? Or both?
Terry

I'm wondering what sort of emergency other than a capsize (turtle) would
necessitate cutting free lifelines.


One reason to release the lifeline might be to facilitate the rescue of a
MOB. It is tough enough to hoist someone over the rail, let alone trying to
get them over/through the lifelines. As for the "shorted turn" concept,
that can't be right (at least for any of the antennas that I've ever used on
my boat). I've not tried direction-finding gear, but even the antenna used
there has windings that are at right angles to the lifeline loop, so there
shouldn't be any significant interaction. If I am wrong about this, I hope
someone lets us know.

I had to replace the coated lifelines with uncoated stainless before I could
enter my sailboat in the Pacific Cup (a race from San Francisco to Hawaii).
The rules that apply mandate wire lifelines, and don't allow rope. I
believe that this is because the rules folks are worried about someone
accidentally cutting a rope lifeline. Before I got the new lifelines I
sliced off the PVC covering on the old ones, hoping I could use the now bare
wire. The exposed wire was rusty, and had meathooks. Perhaps I created the
meathooks with my knife, but if so it sure didn't take much effort. I
recall that some of the covered stainless lines are #305 stainless, rather
than #316, which might explain the corrosion I saw. In any case, once I saw
my bare lifelines, I was quite happy to replace them with new #316 uncoated
wire.

-Paul