"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"terry" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dennis Pogson wrote:
wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I
found at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft
quality. On the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering
marked $1.49 per foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections
to the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

The practise in UK is to secure the SS lifelines with a SS shackle at
the
pulpit and a cord lashing at the cockpit end. The cockpit end of the
wire
terminates about 3 inches short of the stern pulpit with a SS eyebolt
and is
lashed with as many turns of polyester (Dacron) cord as appropriate,
bearing
in mind that it may be necessary to cut the lifelines with one stroke
of a
sharp knife - usually about 6-8 turns is deemed satisfactory.

Dennis.

Question: I had previously thought that fastening one end of the
lifelines with some kind of non metallic rope LASHING (as is done with
all four lines, two each side of our 30+ year old Westerly Tiger) is to
avoid having a metallic 'shorted turn' around the boat that could
interfere with radio reception/direction finding etc. However the above
suggests it is for quick safe disconnection in an emergency? Or both?
Terry

I'm wondering what sort of emergency other than a capsize (turtle) would
necessitate cutting free lifelines.


One reason to release the lifeline might be to facilitate the rescue of a
MOB. It is tough enough to hoist someone over the rail, let alone trying
to get them over/through the lifelines. As for the "shorted turn"
concept, that can't be right (at least for any of the antennas that I've
ever used on my boat). I've not tried direction-finding gear, but even
the antenna used there has windings that are at right angles to the
lifeline loop, so there shouldn't be any significant interaction. If I am
wrong about this, I hope someone lets us know.

I had to replace the coated lifelines with uncoated stainless before I
could enter my sailboat in the Pacific Cup (a race from San Francisco to
Hawaii). The rules that apply mandate wire lifelines, and don't allow
rope. I believe that this is because the rules folks are worried about
someone accidentally cutting a rope lifeline. Before I got the new
lifelines I sliced off the PVC covering on the old ones, hoping I could
use the now bare wire. The exposed wire was rusty, and had meathooks.
Perhaps I created the meathooks with my knife, but if so it sure didn't
take much effort. I recall that some of the covered stainless lines are
#305 stainless, rather than #316, which might explain the corrosion I saw.
In any case, once I saw my bare lifelines, I was quite happy to replace
them with new #316 uncoated wire.

-Paul

It's been my experience that the lifelines aid in MOBs. Gives the crew
something to wedge themselves around when dealing with the person in the
water. Even if it might help to cut them away, I would think it would be a
minor advantage at best. You just end up with more things loose that have
the potential to do harm to boat and crew.

Have you noticed chafe from the bare wires?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"terry" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dennis Pogson wrote:
wrote:
I have been looking before to replace my life lines. In Canada, I
found at Canadian Tires, 9 strands Stainless wire labelled aircraft
quality. On the same rack was the same wire with vinyl covering
marked $1.49 per foot.

I was ready to buy but I did not have the tools for splicing the
(Pelican) end connectors that hooks on the bow and stern pulpits.

I have seen some sailors using SS U-bolts to secure the connections
to the pulpits and stanchions. Not nautically elegant but safe.

The practise in UK is to secure the SS lifelines with a SS shackle at
the
pulpit and a cord lashing at the cockpit end. The cockpit end of the
wire
terminates about 3 inches short of the stern pulpit with a SS eyebolt
and is
lashed with as many turns of polyester (Dacron) cord as appropriate,
bearing
in mind that it may be necessary to cut the lifelines with one stroke
of a
sharp knife - usually about 6-8 turns is deemed satisfactory.

Dennis.

Question: I had previously thought that fastening one end of the
lifelines with some kind of non metallic rope LASHING (as is done with
all four lines, two each side of our 30+ year old Westerly Tiger) is to
avoid having a metallic 'shorted turn' around the boat that could
interfere with radio reception/direction finding etc. However the above
suggests it is for quick safe disconnection in an emergency? Or both?
Terry

I'm wondering what sort of emergency other than a capsize (turtle) would
necessitate cutting free lifelines.


One reason to release the lifeline might be to facilitate the rescue of a
MOB. It is tough enough to hoist someone over the rail, let alone trying
to get them over/through the lifelines. As for the "shorted turn"
concept, that can't be right (at least for any of the antennas that I've
ever used on my boat). I've not tried direction-finding gear, but even
the antenna used there has windings that are at right angles to the
lifeline loop, so there shouldn't be any significant interaction. If I am
wrong about this, I hope someone lets us know.

I had to replace the coated lifelines with uncoated stainless before I
could enter my sailboat in the Pacific Cup (a race from San Francisco to
Hawaii). The rules that apply mandate wire lifelines, and don't allow
rope. I believe that this is because the rules folks are worried about
someone accidentally cutting a rope lifeline. Before I got the new
lifelines I sliced off the PVC covering on the old ones, hoping I could
use the now bare wire. The exposed wire was rusty, and had meathooks.
Perhaps I created the meathooks with my knife, but if so it sure didn't
take much effort. I recall that some of the covered stainless lines are
#305 stainless, rather than #316, which might explain the corrosion I
saw. In any case, once I saw my bare lifelines, I was quite happy to
replace them with new #316 uncoated wire.

-Paul

It's been my experience that the lifelines aid in MOBs. Gives the crew
something to wedge themselves around when dealing with the person in the
water. Even if it might help to cut them away, I would think it would be a
minor advantage at best. You just end up with more things loose that have
the potential to do harm to boat and crew.

Have you noticed chafe from the bare wires?

You may be right about the lifelines being useful in a MOB situation. I was
just relaying what I read (or heard at a Safety At Sea seminar?) on the
subject -- I've got no personal experience with a real MOB. In any case,
I've got standard stainless turnbuckles and pelican hooks for lifeline
attachments, not the lashings.

Chafe hasn't been a problem, except perhaps a tiny bit of wear where the
lazy jib or spin sheet crosses the lifeline. I don't have tubing on my
shrouds either, and this is where I do see a bit of fuzz on the sheet cover
braid. Not enough to be a real problem, but I may eventually put some PVC
pipe over the lower shroud. After sailing to Hawaii and back with the
current configuration, the sheets still look fine where they cross the
lifelines and shrouds. I do make sure that there is some clearance between
the leeward sheet and the shroud, ant there isn't any significant load on
the lazy sheet.

I actually now prefer the bare lifeline. It looks nice, doesn't get sticky
or stained, and of course any corrosion is going to be visible. I used 1x19
wire, and it is flexible enough, even for the boarding gates. As for
hanging laundry, I usually clip it around the dodger or bimini stainless
tubing, or fly it from the flag halyard. If I hang laundry from the
lifelines (while at sea) it gets too much spray.

-Paul

In article ,
Paul wrote:

It's been my experience that the lifelines aid in MOBs. Gives the crew
something to wedge themselves around when dealing with the person in the
water. Even if it might help to cut them away, I would think it would be a
minor advantage at best. You just end up with more things loose that have
the potential to do harm to boat and crew.

Have you noticed chafe from the bare wires?

You may be right about the lifelines being useful in a MOB situation. I was
just relaying what I read (or heard at a Safety At Sea seminar?) on the
subject -- I've got no personal experience with a real MOB. In any case,
I've got standard stainless turnbuckles and pelican hooks for lifeline
attachments, not the lashings.

It's been several years since I participated in "live" MOB practice
(SF bay), but when I did, they seemed to be an asset, given the
conditions can be fairly rigorous. The only time I was the MOB was
during very benign conditions in the Carib., so it's hard to make any
inferences from that. The discussion just got me thinking s'all.

Chafe hasn't been a problem, except perhaps a tiny bit of wear where the
lazy jib or spin sheet crosses the lifeline. I don't have tubing on my
shrouds either, and this is where I do see a bit of fuzz on the sheet cover
braid. Not enough to be a real problem, but I may eventually put some PVC
pipe over the lower shroud. After sailing to Hawaii and back with the
current configuration, the sheets still look fine where they cross the
lifelines and shrouds. I do make sure that there is some clearance between
the leeward sheet and the shroud, ant there isn't any significant load on
the lazy sheet.

I actually now prefer the bare lifeline. It looks nice, doesn't get sticky
or stained, and of course any corrosion is going to be visible. I used 1x19
wire, and it is flexible enough, even for the boarding gates. As for
hanging laundry, I usually clip it around the dodger or bimini stainless
tubing, or fly it from the flag halyard. If I hang laundry from the
lifelines (while at sea) it gets too much spray.

I'm seriously thinking about doing the same thing... no coating on the
lines. I definitely like the look of the bare wire. I don't know if
I'm going to have the time/energy to do it myself, and I'm wondering
if the yard will do it that way. I'm going to stop by and ask them in
the next day or so.

I am loath to put tubing on the shrouds on the same general
principles, but I think it might be needed, since that's where I would
anticipate the most chafe (as you seem to indicate). I guess as long
as there's plenty of airflow, and if I inspect regularly, that should
cover it.

What do you sail and where?



--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Paul wrote:

It's been my experience that the lifelines aid in MOBs. Gives the crew
something to wedge themselves around when dealing with the person in the
water. Even if it might help to cut them away, I would think it would be
a
minor advantage at best. You just end up with more things loose that
have
the potential to do harm to boat and crew.

Have you noticed chafe from the bare wires?

You may be right about the lifelines being useful in a MOB situation. I
was
just relaying what I read (or heard at a Safety At Sea seminar?) on the
subject -- I've got no personal experience with a real MOB. In any case,
I've got standard stainless turnbuckles and pelican hooks for lifeline
attachments, not the lashings.

It's been several years since I participated in "live" MOB practice
(SF bay), but when I did, they seemed to be an asset, given the
conditions can be fairly rigorous. The only time I was the MOB was
during very benign conditions in the Carib., so it's hard to make any
inferences from that. The discussion just got me thinking s'all.

Chafe hasn't been a problem, except perhaps a tiny bit of wear where the
lazy jib or spin sheet crosses the lifeline. I don't have tubing on my
shrouds either, and this is where I do see a bit of fuzz on the sheet
cover
braid. Not enough to be a real problem, but I may eventually put some PVC
pipe over the lower shroud. After sailing to Hawaii and back with the
current configuration, the sheets still look fine where they cross the
lifelines and shrouds. I do make sure that there is some clearance
between
the leeward sheet and the shroud, ant there isn't any significant load on
the lazy sheet.

I actually now prefer the bare lifeline. It looks nice, doesn't get
sticky
or stained, and of course any corrosion is going to be visible. I used
1x19
wire, and it is flexible enough, even for the boarding gates. As for
hanging laundry, I usually clip it around the dodger or bimini stainless
tubing, or fly it from the flag halyard. If I hang laundry from the
lifelines (while at sea) it gets too much spray.

I'm seriously thinking about doing the same thing... no coating on the
lines. I definitely like the look of the bare wire. I don't know if
I'm going to have the time/energy to do it myself, and I'm wondering
if the yard will do it that way. I'm going to stop by and ask them in
the next day or so.

I am loath to put tubing on the shrouds on the same general
principles, but I think it might be needed, since that's where I would
anticipate the most chafe (as you seem to indicate). I guess as long
as there's plenty of airflow, and if I inspect regularly, that should
cover it.

What do you sail and where?



--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

The shroud tubing would be small PVC waterpipe -- more of a roller than a
tight fiting cover. This will let air get to the wire so corrosion
shouldn't be a problem. On the other hand, having the shrouds bare hasn't
been a problem. I suppose that if I were to be hove-to for a long time the
shroud cover would be a good way to reduce the chafing of the sheet. I've
seen this on other boats and it looks like an O.K. idea.

My boat, named "VALIS", is a Pacific Seacraft 44, hull#16. Her home port is
Sausalito, California (San Francisco Bay -- I see that we're neighbors!). I
sail locally, not as often as I would like, on the bay or sometimes out to
the Farallons. I try to do a longer voyage every year or so. So far we
have been to Hawaii and back twice, and once down to the Southern California
Channel Islands and back. I've got photos, journals, etc on the website and
blog: www.sailvalis.com

In a week or so I will be putting up photos, and perhaps some video, from
the recent Hawaii trip. The blog has some photos and daily journal entries,
from the boat, for the race to Hawaii and during the passage back.

Regards,
Paul

In article ,
Paul wrote:
The shroud tubing would be small PVC waterpipe -- more of a roller than a
tight fiting cover. This will let air get to the wire so corrosion
shouldn't be a problem. On the other hand, having the shrouds bare hasn't
been a problem. I suppose that if I were to be hove-to for a long time the
shroud cover would be a good way to reduce the chafing of the sheet. I've
seen this on other boats and it looks like an O.K. idea.

My boat, named "VALIS", is a Pacific Seacraft 44, hull#16. Her home port is
Sausalito, California (San Francisco Bay -- I see that we're neighbors!). I
sail locally, not as often as I would like, on the bay or sometimes out to
the Farallons. I try to do a longer voyage every year or so. So far we
have been to Hawaii and back twice, and once down to the Southern California
Channel Islands and back. I've got photos, journals, etc on the website and
blog: www.sailvalis.com

In a week or so I will be putting up photos, and perhaps some video, from
the recent Hawaii trip. The blog has some photos and daily journal entries,
from the boat, for the race to Hawaii and during the passage back.

I'm teaching this weekend with Club Nautique out of
Sausalito. Regularly sail out of Clipper on a Yamaha 30
as well.

That is one sharp boat! I've seen her for sure. I'll send you some
email from your website with more info. We should have a chat some
time.

Jonathan


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com