otnmbrd wrote:
Gary,
G Obviously you haven't visited too many US ports.
The terms "one whistle", "two whistle", "green to green", "red to red" are
frequently used, as are "stbd to stbd", "port to port".
You will mainly find the terms being used by Pilots, tugboat/workboat
operators and as they are self explanatory as to meaning, for a given
situation, it is unlikely that you will find them written down anywhere.
As to who started the usage, it's anyone's guess, but my own feeling is the
tugboats and it progressed from there to Pilots (Many US pilots come from
tugboats).

otn


So what you are saying is it's slang, local terminology?

I have visited many American Ports, most recently Seattle a couple weeks
ago where I took a 100 foot sailing ship up the Chittendam Locks talking
all the way with Seattle traffic and other ships and no-one said one or
two whistle anything.

I thing it must be a very local phrase, certainly not in common use out
here or in Canadian Ports.

Gary

It was outside the COLREG line.

An aside on the radio aspect of this:

Whatever you think about my not making a radio call, the fact that I
was not calling or possibly responding to a call they might be making,
should have caused them to give me a little more room. The safety
margin for a vessel you are in communication with can be a smaller
because there is more certainty about their intentions.

Just last night in slightly less wind, I watched a Pearson lose rudder
control and shoot wildly up into the wind for a good distance. If he
had been the boat in this encounter and it had happened just before
the passing, he could have been struck. Whoever was driving the mega
yacht had no way of assessing the nature of my vessel's underbody
configuration or my helmsmanship abilities. Just think of the cost of
repairing the hull scratches on something that large and highly
polished to say nothing of the paperwork, bad press, and lawsuits.

Good seamanship dictates passing, when possible, by a sufficient
distance to accommodate the unexpected. Even powerboat to powerboat,
it isn't wise to put the stand on vessel in a position where spotting
something like a floating log might force them to hit either it or
you.

--

Roger Long

Gary wrote:
otnmbrd wrote:

Gary,
G Obviously you haven't visited too many US ports.
The terms "one whistle", "two whistle", "green to green", "red to red"
are frequently used, as are "stbd to stbd", "port to port".
You will mainly find the terms being used by Pilots, tugboat/workboat
operators and as they are self explanatory as to meaning, for a given
situation, it is unlikely that you will find them written down anywhere.
As to who started the usage, it's anyone's guess, but my own feeling
is the tugboats and it progressed from there to Pilots (Many US pilots
come from tugboats).

otn


So what you are saying is it's slang, local terminology?

I have visited many American Ports, most recently Seattle a couple weeks
ago where I took a 100 foot sailing ship up the Chittendam Locks talking
all the way with Seattle traffic and other ships and no-one said one or
two whistle anything.

I thing it must be a very local phrase, certainly not in common use out
here or in Canadian Ports.

Gary


The ships whistle you hear most often in Halifax is when they are
casting off to leave their dock.

If by "local" you mean the US, then yes.
Generally, you are more apt to hear these terms on the Gulf coast and East
coast, but you may still hear them out on the West coast.
Keep in mind that pilots tend to work on channels you are not normally
monitoring so that much of their normal "passing" traffic may not be heard
by you and it is not uncommon for tugs and other workboats to know these
channels (except when pilots use UHF) so they switch and make passing
arrangements on those channels.
You would need to frequent a particular area for awhile to know for sure
whether these terms were being used there, but it's probably more important
to know that you MAY hear them.
Where I work, I normally use "port to port", etc., but I frequently will
hear "red to red" and occasionally "one whistle"...... no big deal, one way
or the other.

otn

"Gary" wrote in message
news:JaXyg.278951$IK3.238705@pd7tw1no...

So what you are saying is it's slang, local terminology?

I have visited many American Ports, most recently Seattle a couple weeks
ago where I took a 100 foot sailing ship up the Chittendam Locks talking
all the way with Seattle traffic and other ships and no-one said one or
two whistle anything.

I thing it must be a very local phrase, certainly not in common use out
here or in Canadian Ports.

Gary

otnmbrd wrote:
If by "local" you mean the US, then yes.
Generally, you are more apt to hear these terms on the Gulf coast and East
coast, but you may still hear them out on the West coast.
Keep in mind that pilots tend to work on channels you are not normally
monitoring so that much of their normal "passing" traffic may not be heard
by you and it is not uncommon for tugs and other workboats to know these
channels (except when pilots use UHF) so they switch and make passing
arrangements on those channels.
You would need to frequent a particular area for awhile to know for sure
whether these terms were being used there, but it's probably more important
to know that you MAY hear them.
Where I work, I normally use "port to port", etc., but I frequently will
hear "red to red" and occasionally "one whistle"...... no big deal, one way
or the other.

otn

My original point was that the terms "one or two whistle pass" is not
commonly used by mariners around the world. It might not be clearly
understood. It may work when dealing with tug boats and pilots in a
particular area of the US but it is not a good way to learn to indicate
intentions if you venture a little farther from home. It wouldn't work
here in the Pacific Northwest.

As far as channels monitored for intership and passing arrangements, I
monitor the correct ones as dictated by the local the Vessel Traffic
Management System (VTMS), where ever I am. It is the law. If the
pilots and tugs are on a separate working channel using their own
version of slang, then it just doesn't matter to those of us driving
ships. Presumably, if they were making arrangements with me, they would
be on the proper designated channel, using the proper terminology and
monitored by the local VTMS.


Gary

Roger Long wrote:
It was outside the COLREG line.

An aside on the radio aspect of this:

Whatever you think about my not making a radio call, the fact that I
was not calling or possibly responding to a call they might be making,
should have caused them to give me a little more room. The safety
margin for a vessel you are in communication with can be a smaller
because there is more certainty about their intentions.

Just last night in slightly less wind, I watched a Pearson lose rudder
control and shoot wildly up into the wind for a good distance. If he
had been the boat in this encounter and it had happened just before
the passing, he could have been struck. Whoever was driving the mega
yacht had no way of assessing the nature of my vessel's underbody
configuration or my helmsmanship abilities. Just think of the cost of
repairing the hull scratches on something that large and highly
polished to say nothing of the paperwork, bad press, and lawsuits.

Good seamanship dictates passing, when possible, by a sufficient
distance to accommodate the unexpected. Even powerboat to powerboat,
it isn't wise to put the stand on vessel in a position where spotting
something like a floating log might force them to hit either it or
you.

Good points. Of course one does not normally make passing arrangements
based on the likelihood that the opposing ship will lose control. Good
seamanship, however, does demand a certain degree of prudence.

Prudence should also dictate reducing sail when there is a risk of
rounding up and loosing control in narrow channels. It is also easier
on gear.

Gary

Don White wrote:
Gary wrote:

otnmbrd wrote:

Gary,
G Obviously you haven't visited too many US ports.
The terms "one whistle", "two whistle", "green to green", "red to
red" are frequently used, as are "stbd to stbd", "port to port".
You will mainly find the terms being used by Pilots, tugboat/workboat
operators and as they are self explanatory as to meaning, for a given
situation, it is unlikely that you will find them written down anywhere.
As to who started the usage, it's anyone's guess, but my own feeling
is the tugboats and it progressed from there to Pilots (Many US
pilots come from tugboats).

otn


So what you are saying is it's slang, local terminology?

I have visited many American Ports, most recently Seattle a couple
weeks ago where I took a 100 foot sailing ship up the Chittendam Locks
talking all the way with Seattle traffic and other ships and no-one
said one or two whistle anything.

I thing it must be a very local phrase, certainly not in common use
out here or in Canadian Ports.

Gary



The ships whistle you hear most often in Halifax is when they are
casting off to leave their dock.

From what I understand, we are not talking about actual whistle
signals, but radiotelephone communications.

You won't hear a ship leaving the dock in Halifax getting on the radio
and saying. "I intend one prolonged whistle and three short departure."

Certainly, when I leave my berth (every working day) I sound the signals
and indicate my intentions to the Harbour Authority, as does everyone
else, but I never hear whistles talked about on the radio, by the tugs,
pilots or anyone else.

Gary
PS At home, with my scanner going on all channels, I don't hear that
terminology either. The Straits of Juan de Fuca, right outside my
window is a very busy chunk of water with compulsory pilotage, much tug
traffic and everything else. I would guess 30 freighters/cruise
ships/warships etc a day go by and many more pleasure craft and work boats.

Gary wrote:
Don White wrote:

Gary wrote:

otnmbrd wrote:

Gary,
G Obviously you haven't visited too many US ports.
The terms "one whistle", "two whistle", "green to green", "red to
red" are frequently used, as are "stbd to stbd", "port to port".
You will mainly find the terms being used by Pilots,
tugboat/workboat operators and as they are self explanatory as to
meaning, for a given situation, it is unlikely that you will find
them written down anywhere.
As to who started the usage, it's anyone's guess, but my own feeling
is the tugboats and it progressed from there to Pilots (Many US
pilots come from tugboats).

otn


So what you are saying is it's slang, local terminology?

I have visited many American Ports, most recently Seattle a couple
weeks ago where I took a 100 foot sailing ship up the Chittendam
Locks talking all the way with Seattle traffic and other ships and
no-one said one or two whistle anything.

I thing it must be a very local phrase, certainly not in common use
out here or in Canadian Ports.

Gary




The ships whistle you hear most often in Halifax is when they are
casting off to leave their dock.


From what I understand, we are not talking about actual whistle
signals, but radiotelephone communications.

You won't hear a ship leaving the dock in Halifax getting on the radio
and saying. "I intend one prolonged whistle and three short departure."

Certainly, when I leave my berth (every working day) I sound the signals
and indicate my intentions to the Harbour Authority, as does everyone
else, but I never hear whistles talked about on the radio, by the tugs,
pilots or anyone else.

Gary
PS At home, with my scanner going on all channels, I don't hear that
terminology either. The Straits of Juan de Fuca, right outside my
window is a very busy chunk of water with compulsory pilotage, much tug
traffic and everything else. I would guess 30 freighters/cruise
ships/warships etc a day go by and many more pleasure craft and work boats.

You're right.
When I'm bored..usually in the winter..I someties monitor channels 12,
14 16, 68 etc and never hear anyone actually talking about whistles.

"Gary" wrote in message
news:ya4zg.277406$Mn5.147616@pd7tw3no...
Roger Long wrote:
It was outside the COLREG line.

An aside on the radio aspect of this:

Whatever you think about my not making a radio call, the fact that I was
not calling or possibly responding to a call they might be making, should
have caused them to give me a little more room. The safety margin for a
vessel you are in communication with can be a smaller because there is
more certainty about their intentions.

Just last night in slightly less wind, I watched a Pearson lose rudder
control and shoot wildly up into the wind for a good distance. If he had
been the boat in this encounter and it had happened just before the
passing, he could have been struck. Whoever was driving the mega yacht
had no way of assessing the nature of my vessel's underbody configuration
or my helmsmanship abilities. Just think of the cost of repairing the
hull scratches on something that large and highly polished to say nothing
of the paperwork, bad press, and lawsuits.

Good seamanship dictates passing, when possible, by a sufficient distance
to accommodate the unexpected. Even powerboat to powerboat, it isn't
wise to put the stand on vessel in a position where spotting something
like a floating log might force them to hit either it or you.

Good points. Of course one does not normally make passing arrangements
based on the likelihood that the opposing ship will lose control. Good
seamanship, however, does demand a certain degree of prudence.

Prudence should also dictate reducing sail when there is a risk of
rounding up and loosing control in narrow channels. It is also easier on
gear.

Gary

And, you should see some of the turkeys on the SF bay when the wind is the
normal 20kts with gusts to 30. An amazing number of expensive boats rounding
up over and over and over. You'd think they'd get it, but they don't.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gary" wrote in message
news:l54zg.277400$Mn5.102305@pd7tw3no...
otnmbrd wrote:

My original point was that the terms "one or two whistle pass" is not
commonly used by mariners around the world. It might not be clearly
understood. It may work when dealing with tug boats and pilots in a
particular area of the US but it is not a good way to learn to indicate
intentions if you venture a little farther from home. It wouldn't work
here in the Pacific Northwest.

As far as channels monitored for intership and passing arrangements, I
monitor the correct ones as dictated by the local the Vessel Traffic
Management System (VTMS), where ever I am. It is the law. If the pilots
and tugs are on a separate working channel using their own version of
slang, then it just doesn't matter to those of us driving ships.
Presumably, if they were making arrangements with me, they would be on the
proper designated channel, using the proper terminology and monitored by
the local VTMS.


Gary

It occurs to me that the two skippers are discussing how they will pass each
other via VHF, they could even perform a "Yankee Doodle Whistle," if they so
decided.