Gerald wrote:
Nice link .... to the international rules. Most people (In the US) need to
focus on the Inland Rules first. You can always get the most up-to-date
official copy of the Nav Rules (International and Inland at)

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/download.htm

So, where is the demarcation line for where the "inland rules start and
the Colregs end?

Which rules did apply in this case and does it make a difference?

Gary

Good point Gary. The original post talks about "returning back in" and
"hopeing to clear" Ram Island and being in the Portland Main area. I see a
Ram Island just inside the COLREG line on the approach to Portland. It
seems likely that COLREGS probably applied to the situation.


"Gary" wrote in message
news:zpPyg.264958$Mn5.8889@pd7tw3no...
Gerald wrote:
Nice link .... to the international rules. Most people (In the US) need
to focus on the Inland Rules first. You can always get the most
up-to-date official copy of the Nav Rules (International and Inland at)

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/download.htm

So, where is the demarcation line for where the "inland rules start and
the Colregs end?

Which rules did apply in this case and does it make a difference?

Gary

I agree! I think you need to read them again.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
Nice link .... to the international rules. Most people (In the US) need
to focus on the Inland Rules first. You can always get the most
up-to-date official copy of the Nav Rules (International and Inland at)

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/download.htm



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Totally wrong. I think a couple of people need to re-read the colregs.

Here's a link in bigger type for those of us with older eyes...

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknow...g/colregs.html

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Wayne.B" wrote

Roger forget the "rules being observed" for a minute. He
didn't hit
you did he? That's his only obligation.

Bzzzt! Wrong!

The demarcation line depends on where you sail.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gary" wrote in message
news:zpPyg.264958$Mn5.8889@pd7tw3no...
Gerald wrote:
Nice link .... to the international rules. Most people (In the US) need
to focus on the Inland Rules first. You can always get the most
up-to-date official copy of the Nav Rules (International and Inland at)

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/download.htm

So, where is the demarcation line for where the "inland rules start and
the Colregs end?

Which rules did apply in this case and does it make a difference?

Gary

"Gary" wrote

Finally, how did you determine that risk of collision existed with
this yacht? What piece of information was key to causing you to
maneouvre?

I had a very good sight of his stem head remaining exactly in line
with the masts for a long period of time in a steady wind during which
he remained in the same place behind my bow pulpit.

After I ran off about 100 yards, making a clear enough course change
demonstrate an intention for us to pass "one whistle", he passed
about 50 yards to windward. That means he might have cleared if no
action had been taken but it would have been equally close and it
would have put him close to leeward which is a bad place for a
closehauled sailboat because it can not change course to increase the
passing distance if a misjudgment has been made by either vessel.

I agree that Wayne is wrong about the "miss is as good as a mile".
Except in confined waters where it may be necessary, there should be
some margin for safety and wake. It's all well and good to say you
shouldn't be out there if you can't take it but the reality is that
sailboats sometimes have people below cooking or who can just fall.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be exposed to any wake but the still
breaking wake within a couple wave lengths of a large vessel passing
much closer than it should is something entirely different. The boat
and I can handle it but who knows who is down below.

Assessing how much "buffer" is appropriate to each crossing situation
is just a basic part of seamanship. Sailboats sometimes need to head
up or bear off quite suddenly to avoid excessive heel angle and
possible loss of control. A clean pass means leaving room for those
possibilities. I do the same for lobsterman who may need to suddenly
circle around as they pick up a buoy. If you "just miss" a trawler
yacht that is yawing and on the edge of a broach in steep quartering
seas, it's not a clean pass because you got inside his safety zone.

--

Roger Long

??? I am not sure what do you mean ???

As I mentioned prior ... I know the rules. This thread has evolved to be
somewhat fuzzy. At no point did the original poster state that the incident
took place outside the COLREG line (I am not personnaly familiar with the
Portland area). Several give-and-takes that have taken place here discussed
the use of sound signals to give passing intentions. This is a concept that
does not exist in normal passing situations in COLREG waters. In
INTERNATIONAL waters sound signals are generally (except for narrow
channels) used to announce steering actions taken, not proposed actions as
in INLAND. I incorrectly asssumed from the context of the discussion that
the discussion was about an event that took place under INLAND.

Having since checked a chart for the Portland area, it is now apparent that
the incident may have occured ouside the COLREGS line. While I certainly
didn't say that the INTERNATIONAL rules did not apply, nor that the INLAND
rules did apply, you could reasonable assume that thay may have been my
intention. If so, I stand corrected.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
I agree! I think you need to read them again.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
Nice link .... to the international rules. Most people (In the US) need
to focus on the Inland Rules first. You can always get the most
up-to-date official copy of the Nav Rules (International and Inland at)

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/download.htm



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Totally wrong. I think a couple of people need to re-read the colregs.

Here's a link in bigger type for those of us with older eyes...

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknow...g/colregs.html

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Wayne.B" wrote

Roger forget the "rules being observed" for a minute. He
didn't hit
you did he? That's his only obligation.

Bzzzt! Wrong!

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
??? I am not sure what do you mean ???

As I mentioned prior ... I know the rules. This thread has evolved to be
somewhat fuzzy. At no point did the original poster state that the
incident took place outside the COLREG line (I am not personnaly familiar
with the Portland area). Several give-and-takes that have taken place
here discussed the use of sound signals to give passing intentions. This
is a concept that does not exist in normal passing situations in COLREG
waters. In INTERNATIONAL waters sound signals are generally (except for
narrow channels) used to announce steering actions taken, not proposed
actions as in INLAND. I incorrectly asssumed from the context of the
discussion that the discussion was about an event that took place under
INLAND.

Having since checked a chart for the Portland area, it is now apparent
that the incident may have occured ouside the COLREGS line. While I
certainly didn't say that the INTERNATIONAL rules did not apply, nor that
the INLAND rules did apply, you could reasonable assume that thay may have
been my intention. If so, I stand corrected.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
I agree! I think you need to read them again.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
Nice link .... to the international rules. Most people (In the US) need
to focus on the Inland Rules first. You can always get the most
up-to-date official copy of the Nav Rules (International and Inland at)

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/download.htm



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Totally wrong. I think a couple of people need to re-read the colregs.

Here's a link in bigger type for those of us with older eyes...

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknow...g/colregs.html

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Wayne.B" wrote

Roger forget the "rules being observed" for a minute. He
didn't hit
you did he? That's his only obligation.

Bzzzt! Wrong!

I don't remember the context... I have always stood corrected from time to
time. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

OK, this is getting a little confusing ... did this event take place outside
the COLREG demarcation line I see just to the south of the island? Your
initial post has spun off some other discussions that could benefit from
this clarification.more below


"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Gary" wrote

Finally, how did you determine that risk of collision existed with this
yacht? What piece of information was key to causing you to maneouvre?

I had a very good sight of his stem head remaining exactly in line with
the masts for a long period of time in a steady wind during which he
remained in the same place behind my bow pulpit.

After I ran off about 100 yards, making a clear enough course change
demonstrate an intention for us to pass "one whistle", he passed about 50
yards to windward.

If you were outside the COLREGS line, your "one whistle" signal told the
skipper of the other vessel that "I am altering my course to starboard".
This would require no response from the other vessel. Inside the COLREGS
line your "one whistle" signal would indicate your intention to pass on his
port side and that he should either agree with a similar response or
disagree with a 5 whistle.

I am not trying to justify the other vessels actions or criticize your...
just understand what happened.

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Gerald" wrote in message
...
??? I am not sure what do you mean ???

As I mentioned prior ... I know the rules. This thread has evolved to be
somewhat fuzzy. At no point did the original poster state that the
incident took place outside the COLREG line (I am not personnaly familiar
with the Portland area). Several give-and-takes that have taken place
here discussed the use of sound signals to give passing intentions. This
is a concept that does not exist in normal passing situations in COLREG
waters. In INTERNATIONAL waters sound signals are generally (except for
narrow channels) used to announce steering actions taken, not proposed
actions as in INLAND. I incorrectly asssumed from the context of the
discussion that the discussion was about an event that took place under
INLAND.

Having since checked a chart for the Portland area, it is now apparent
that the incident may have occured ouside the COLREGS line. While I
certainly didn't say that the INTERNATIONAL rules did not apply, nor that
the INLAND rules did apply, you could reasonable assume that thay may
have been my intention. If so, I stand corrected.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
I agree! I think you need to read them again.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
Nice link .... to the international rules. Most people (In the US)
need to focus on the Inland Rules first. You can always get the most
up-to-date official copy of the Nav Rules (International and Inland at)

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/download.htm



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Totally wrong. I think a couple of people need to re-read the colregs.

Here's a link in bigger type for those of us with older eyes...

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknow...g/colregs.html

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Wayne.B" wrote

Roger forget the "rules being observed" for a minute. He
didn't hit
you did he? That's his only obligation.

Bzzzt! Wrong!

I don't remember the context...

Man, I hate it when that happens...


I have always stood corrected from time to time. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
??? I am not sure what do you mean ???

As I mentioned prior ... I know the rules. This thread
has evolved to be
somewhat fuzzy. At no point did the original poster state
that the incident
took place outside the COLREG line (I am not personnaly
familiar with the
Portland area). Several give-and-takes that have taken
place here discussed
the use of sound signals to give passing intentions. This
is a concept that
does not exist in normal passing situations in COLREG
waters. In
INTERNATIONAL waters sound signals are generally (except
for narrow
channels) used to announce steering actions taken, not
proposed actions as
in INLAND. I incorrectly asssumed from the context of the
discussion that
the discussion was about an event that took place under
INLAND.

Having since checked a chart for the Portland area, it is
now apparent that
the incident may have occured ouside the COLREGS line.
While I certainly
didn't say that the INTERNATIONAL rules did not apply, nor
that the INLAND
rules did apply, you could reasonable assume that thay may
have been my
intention. If so, I stand corrected.


that was a lot of words just to admit you were wrong.

SV