Bob is absolutely right. If your love of boating is based primarily
on the rush of sailing rail down, and your annual cruise is a weekend
at the marina across the bay, then a cruising cat is not for you.

Ironically, Bob imagines a time in the future when a cat might be the
best match for his needs. I've said that my next sailboat will
probably be a small overnighter, perhaps 22 feet. Right now we're
between long cruises but still spend about 6 weeks each summer aboard,
so the cat still serves our needs.

Capt. Rob wrote:
I find it interesting that this ultimately pragmatic thread has not
touched on the actual sailing experience itself. I've sailed two cats,
a Gemini and PDQ 36. In both cases my wife and I were bored to tears.
The PDQ was fast off the wind and there was some novelty in that for a
few minutes, but it didn't last. The heeling and motion of a monohul is
part of the romance of sailing for many of us. It feels right, even if
our drinks spill. I think the fellow who posted that while they are
both wind powered, they are too different to truly conpare. No doubt if
I was planning extended cruises with little chance of day and night
sails, a Cat might be the better pick. But for the way most folks sail,
with many daysails and long weekends a mono will be a lot more fun.
Then again, the novelty of heeling and having an exciting ride with the
rail buried can also lose it's charm. My wife and I plan to buy a
larger boat for part-time liveaboard in about 4-5 years and we'll look
at cats again, but I expect we've been spoiled to want the fun factor
more. Maybe our aging bones will change all of that! I do agree that
cats are not attractive, and I'm still young enough (no offense meant
here!) to place that high on my list, though I own a "modern" looking
boat she's still pleasing to my eye.

RB
Beneteau First 35s5 http://hometown.aol.com/bobsprit/index.html
NY

Ironically, Bob imagines a time in the future when a cat might be the
best match for his needs.


Thanks for keeping this thread civil, Jeff :-)
In the real world I can fully understand and appreciate the clear
advantages that a 36 foot Cat has over my boat. And I'm sure you can
see my side as well regarding the "fun factor" aspect. But for cruising
and spending long periods aboard, the Cat is a clear winner if you can
meet the price point. I have an open mind about it. You buy what suits
your situation, and sometimes passion (such as mine for a slender
tender hull) can injure a cruisers dreams in a very obvious way.
As I said, if we start looking at a part-time home on the water, a 40
foot Cat is a great compromise vs. a 50 or even 60 foot mono.

RB
Beneteau First 35s5 http://hometown.aol.com/bobsprit/index.html
NY

Interesting perspectives and civil to boot.

I really think if you know the type of sailing you plan to do the right boat
will jump out at you.

If all we (my wife and I) wanted to sail were the East Coast and Caribbean
we would most likely sail a cat. We want to sail across the pond and feel
the mono is safer and more comfortable for that application.

The cat is built with a hatch in the bottom for a reason, they do flip. Not
a problem if there is someone to get you before you get washed off.

Certainly roominess goes to the cat. Cost to purchase goes to the mono.
Speeds are comparable. You can make a lists that go on and on.

In the end you will buy what you want and defend that decision because you
want to validate the decision you made. I include myself in that statement.

Bryan


"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ironically, Bob imagines a time in the future when a cat might be the
best match for his needs.


Thanks for keeping this thread civil, Jeff :-)
In the real world I can fully understand and appreciate the clear
advantages that a 36 foot Cat has over my boat. And I'm sure you can
see my side as well regarding the "fun factor" aspect. But for cruising
and spending long periods aboard, the Cat is a clear winner if you can
meet the price point. I have an open mind about it. You buy what suits
your situation, and sometimes passion (such as mine for a slender
tender hull) can injure a cruisers dreams in a very obvious way.
As I said, if we start looking at a part-time home on the water, a 40
foot Cat is a great compromise vs. a 50 or even 60 foot mono.

RB
Beneteau First 35s5 http://hometown.aol.com/bobsprit/index.html
NY

In the end you will buy what you want and defend that decision because
you
want to validate the decision you made. I include myself in that
statement.


Well said, Bryan and certainly true. Anytime you feel bored with
civility and intelligence feel welcome to join the Sailing fools Parade
at Alt.sailing.asa. There you'll find some of these same discussions as
well, though you'll have to wade through a lot of nasty insults (all
for fun some would say) to get to the meat of most topics.


RB
Beneteau First 35s5
NY

Thanks but I think I'll pass on that. : )

Bryan

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
In the end you will buy what you want and defend that decision because
you
want to validate the decision you made. I include myself in that
statement.


Well said, Bryan and certainly true. Anytime you feel bored with
civility and intelligence feel welcome to join the Sailing fools Parade
at Alt.sailing.asa. There you'll find some of these same discussions as
well, though you'll have to wade through a lot of nasty insults (all
for fun some would say) to get to the meat of most topics.


RB
Beneteau First 35s5
NY

http://www.rina.org.uk/rfiles/IJSCT/Discuss/deakin.pdf

is the link to the Wolfson study I mentioned earlier. Good
reading and not too technical...

Evan Gatehouse

"Capt" Rob wrote:
.... Anytime you feel bored with
civility and intelligence feel welcome to join the Sailing fools Parade
at Alt.sailing.asa. There you'll find some of these same discussions as
well, though you'll have to wade through a lot of nasty insults

90% of which are from one source, it should be noted.

BTW if you want to call yourself "Captain" why don't you
explain to the nice folks in this newsgroup how you became a
captain.

DSK

90% of which are from one source, it should be noted.

BTW if you want to call yourself "Captain" why don't you



Look up the word Captain, Doug. You might also ask the Coast Guard
exactly what a captain is. Here's a hint. It does not have to involve a
license. I think plenty of people here know who we are and may even
know that you no longer sail and have a trawler, but I won't engage in
any nonsense here since this is a real group.
You're welcome to fire away....I won't fire back. Have fun.

RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ps.com...
90% of which are from one source, it should be noted.

BTW if you want to call yourself "Captain" why don't you



Look up the word Captain, Doug. You might also ask the Coast Guard
exactly what a captain is. Here's a hint. It does not have to involve a
license. I think plenty of people here know who we are and may even
know that you no longer sail and have a trawler, but I won't engage in
any nonsense here since this is a real group.
You're welcome to fire away....I won't fire back. Have fun.

Well, you're certainly not a licensed captain. I suppose you can call
yourself whatever you want, but the typical definition of Captain is someone
licensed by the USCG or other authority.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Bryan wrote:
Interesting perspectives and civil to boot.

We'll see what we can do about that.


I really think if you know the type of sailing you plan to do the right boat
will jump out at you.

If all we (my wife and I) wanted to sail were the East Coast and Caribbean
we would most likely sail a cat. We want to sail across the pond and feel
the mono is safer and more comfortable for that application.

Comfort is very subjective, but safety is not. There's absolutely no
evidence that monohulls are safer. On the contrary, for a variety of
reasons, cats are a lot safer than monohulls.

I'm not sure my PDQ would be my first choice for an Atlantic crossing,
but they've done it. A large number of them have been to Bermuda
because a few of the old owners do an annual rendezvous there, and one
of the charter companies delivered through Bermuda. A Prout (with a
very conservative rig) might be a better choice for the passage, but
then you'd give up some performance in your local cruising. Of
course, you have the same compromises in monohulls.


The cat is built with a hatch in the bottom for a reason, they do flip.

Actually, most cats don't have the hatch, because, contrary to "urban
legend," cruising cats don't flip. OK, they've flipped a few times.

But, I challenge you to find even a single link to where a modern
production cruising cat capsized while being cruised. Invariably,
you'll find the story was about a racing cat (or more likely a tri),
or a homemade or archaic design.

BTW, consider that virtually every carter cat in the Caribbean sailed
there on its own bottom, mostly from France and South Africa.

Not
a problem if there is someone to get you before you get washed off.

Washed off? I think I'd poke the epirb and wait down below for a
while. Meanwhile, I'd thank my lucky stars that I didn't have a
monohull, which at this point would likely be headed toward the bottom.



Certainly roominess goes to the cat. Cost to purchase goes to the mono.
Speeds are comparable. You can make a lists that go on and on.

true for roominess and cost. Speed depends on how you measure it - by
the foot cats are faster, by the dollar maybe not. By the sail area
that must be handled, cats are definitely faster. But if you like
gensets and A/C's, the cat can lose any advantage.


In the end you will buy what you want and defend that decision because you
want to validate the decision you made. I include myself in that statement.

me too.


Bryan


"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Ironically, Bob imagines a time in the future when a cat might be the
best match for his needs.


Thanks for keeping this thread civil, Jeff :-)
In the real world I can fully understand and appreciate the clear
advantages that a 36 foot Cat has over my boat. And I'm sure you can
see my side as well regarding the "fun factor" aspect. But for cruising
and spending long periods aboard, the Cat is a clear winner if you can
meet the price point. I have an open mind about it. You buy what suits
your situation, and sometimes passion (such as mine for a slender
tender hull) can injure a cruisers dreams in a very obvious way.
As I said, if we start looking at a part-time home on the water, a 40
foot Cat is a great compromise vs. a 50 or even 60 foot mono.

RB
Beneteau First 35s5 http://hometown.aol.com/bobsprit/index.html
NY