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Old January 10th 06, 11:06 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
 
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Default Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?


So why do people buy cruising catamarans if monohulls in
the same price range are just as spacious and can go just
as fast ?

1. Shallower draft
2. They can be parked on the beach
3. They don't sink as easily
4. They don't roll like monohulls
5. ???

"Bryan" wrote:
We raced our Schock 35 for many years and often there
was a multihull fleet sailing the same course. F-28 Corsair
Trimarans and others of the same ilk. We were very rarely
beaten around the course by those multihulls.. I would
tend to agree that in general a large monohull will be as
fast if not faster than a cruising cat.


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Old January 11th 06, 12:36 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
Jeff
 
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Default Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?

wrote:
So why do people buy cruising catamarans if monohulls in
the same price range are just as spacious and can go just
as fast ?


I would dispute that claim, sort of. Certainly in the used monohull
market there are bargains to be had, but there are very few cruising
boat that can keep up with a modern cat. Also, most buyers decide
what kind of boat they would prefer rather independent of the price.
Of course, cats tend to be pricey, partly because of engineering
issues, so you might find a large monohull that does fit your
criteria. In our case, the same money would have bought a 42 foot
Hunter or Catalina, neither of which are remotely close to the size
and speed of our boat.

Its hard to do a dollar for dollar comparison, but there are very few
cruising monohulls that can keep up with a cat, even one thats a bit
smaller. And its hard to find any mono that is "spacious" in the same
way as a cat.

One aspect you're ignoring is that the cat will have a much smaller
rig than an equally fast cruising monohull. My 36 foot cat is fairly
fast with only 540 feet of white sail. A mono of similar speed and
size would be 45 feet or more, and might have twice the sail to deal
with. And many cats will do 9 or 10 knots all day in a breeze,
without a spinnaker. While some racing boat will do that, it would
usually require a chute.


1. Shallower draft

That's a real good reason. When folks talk about how mono's outpoint
cats they often pick racing boats with a 7 foot keel.

2. They can be parked on the beach

That's not done as often as one might think. However, I have anchored
in water shallow enough to walk ashore.

3. They don't sink as easily

Its pretty hard to find cases of more than a handful of cats sinking.
There are a number of other safety features, such as a huge
foredeck, a small rig, no heeling, etc.

4. They don't roll like monohulls

Well, they roll like cats, which is a different thing. However, if
you're talking about rolling in anchorages, its rare that my cat is
anything other than rock steady in a protected anchorage. Often, I'll
see neighboring monohulls rolling because we got waked.

5. ???

I find the ride far more relaxing than monohulls, though I'll admit
there are differing opinions on this point. After 8 hours of sailing
a mono my legs are usually getting a bit "rubbery" but after sailing
all day on a cat I'm ready to boogie.

Twin engines are a plus, so is fast efficient powering.

I've come to love the deck layout, with a huge trampoline forward,
twin swim platforms and a nice spot for a dinghy in davits. If the
cockpit is enclosed (many modern cats have a hardtop) it becomes a
large pilothouse. We leave a lot of gear outside, and take a lot of
meals in the cockpit.

The large deck space means lots of hatches - we have 8 large opening
hatches on deck, plus 8 more side hatches. This is a huge amount of
ventilation, and A/C is not needed at anchor.


"Bryan" wrote:

We raced our Schock 35 for many years and often there
was a multihull fleet sailing the same course. F-28 Corsair
Trimarans and others of the same ilk. We were very rarely
beaten around the course by those multihulls.. I would
tend to agree that in general a large monohull will be as
fast if not faster than a cruising cat.

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Old January 11th 06, 01:31 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
Gary
 
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Default Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?

wrote:
So why do people buy cruising catamarans if monohulls in
the same price range are just as spacious and can go just
as fast ?

1. Shallower draft
2. They can be parked on the beach
3. They don't sink as easily
4. They don't roll like monohulls
5. ???

"Bryan" wrote:

We raced our Schock 35 for many years and often there
was a multihull fleet sailing the same course. F-28 Corsair
Trimarans and others of the same ilk. We were very rarely
beaten around the course by those multihulls.. I would
tend to agree that in general a large monohull will be as
fast if not faster than a cruising cat.

Multihull sailing and monohull sailing, while they enjoy they same
propulsion system (wind) are two different vehicles. The safety valve
on a monohull is its ability to roll with the punches. The multihull
has no such valve. The discomfort of living at 15 degrees of heel is
the price you pay for that feature. The level living on the multi makes
it speedier (normally) and more comfortable with more living space.
There is more room on deck for junk to play with at anchor. There is
more privacy. They are wonderful boats for cruising until you have to
pay moorage.
The down side is that lack of a safety valve. When **** happens in the
middle of the night you gotta be paying attention or you'l be living in
it upside down. Fortunately, they are designed for that eventuality.

I would love one if I found one that I liked the look of.

Gaz
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Old January 11th 06, 05:59 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
Evan Gatehouse
 
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Default Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?

wrote:
So why do people buy cruising catamarans if monohulls in
the same price range are just as spacious and can go just
as fast ?


I don't agree with the "just as fast" reason. My cruising
cat, a 40' fairly light boat but no racer, has often hit 11
knots in 20 knots of wind. Top speed so far on a beam reach
in 25 knots of wind is 15.4 knots for a sustained burst.
We're regularly sailing at 9-10 knots in 18 knots. We pray
for windy days

http://www.kp44.org/ftp/KP44Polars.pdf is a link to a Kelly
Peterson 44 VPP. Note that wind is APPARENT WIND, not true
wind angle.

In 16 knots of wind she is predicted to sail at about 7.5
knots pointing at about 35+ apparent (hard to read the
graph), or about 45+ true.

The PDQ 44 is predicted to sail at 7.8 knots at the same
wind strength, same wind angle.

On a beam reach in 12 knots, the KP44 is predicted to do 7.7
knots. The PDQ 44 is predicted to go 9.5 knots both
switched to a spinnaker at that point.


1. Shallower draft


Yup

2. They can be parked on the beach


Not often done cause it scrapes off the bottom paint and
you're stuck there for a tidal cycle. But useful for
painting the bottom or doing maintenance.

3. They don't sink as easily


Very true

4. They don't roll like monohulls


Not only do they not roll, I find the motion at sea a lot
more comfortable because of the reduced motion. My wife
left a drink on a fwd. crossbeam for 1/2 hour and it was
still there when she returned. Beating upwind into 25 knots
3-4' seas, going 7-8 knots, a glass of orange juice spilled.
This was cause for great alarm since nothing like that had
ever happened on the boat

And at anchor of course they just sit there.

5. ???


A ton more deck and interior volume. Smaller rigs as Jeff
suggested.

I don't think moorage while cruising is as much of a problem
as most people think. Generally we anchor everywhere, but
end ties are usually available for the same price. Not
everywhere, but they are available.

Evan Gatehouse


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Old January 11th 06, 09:57 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
[email protected]
 
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Default Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?


Evan Gatehouse wrote:
...
2. They can be parked on the beach


Not often done cause it scrapes off the bottom paint and
you're stuck there for a tidal cycle. But useful for
painting the bottom or doing maintenance.


What about if your boat has reinforced keel shoes ?
Are these made of metal so you don't have to worry about
scraping the paint ?

Fountaine Pajot actually shows you how to do this at:

http://www.fountaine-pajot.com/article263-en.html

but if you want to see the whole animation you'll have to
scroll down quickly or right click on the image and click
"Play".
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Old January 11th 06, 10:39 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
Peter HK
 
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Default Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?


wrote in message
nk.net...

So why do people buy cruising catamarans if monohulls in
the same price range are just as spacious and can go just
as fast ?

1. Shallower draft
2. They can be parked on the beach
3. They don't sink as easily
4. They don't roll like monohulls
5. ???

"Bryan" wrote:
We raced our Schock 35 for many years and often there
was a multihull fleet sailing the same course. F-28 Corsair
Trimarans and others of the same ilk. We were very rarely
beaten around the course by those multihulls.. I would
tend to agree that in general a large monohull will be as
fast if not faster than a cruising cat.


There are a number of errors in logic in the above post.

People buy cruising catamarans because they are better than cruising monos,
albeit generally more expensive.

Firstly let me make a comment about speed. In this perennial argument there
always seems to be the anecdotal statement that someone in a mono somewhere
beat a multi around a course and that means that multis aren't faster.

Let me point out the reality. Cruising multis (of similar size) are slower
than racing monos. Racing multis are faster than cruising monos. Racing
multis are faster than racing monos (clearly evident from all the long
distant records and also from the America's cup farce in NZ between the huge
mono and the multi half its size where the cat annihilated the mono to
windward and held back off the the breeze so as not to jeopardize the
subsequent court case). Cruising multis are faster than cruising monos- but
not by much as both tend to be overloaded and the evidence that I have seen
suggests about a 10% difference.

Shallow draft is great.

Movement under sail is arguable as multis have a sharper motion but the lack
of heel is a big plus. On my cruising cat we never had a glass spill even in
40- 50 knots ( though I admit we weren't beating into it!).

Non-sinkability is a huge safety plus and forgotten by the mono brigade.
Here in Oz in the last 25-30 years there have been no deaths from multi
capsizes but well over 200 deaths from mono sinkings. Multis here are
popular and account for 25-30% of boats cruising, so it's not a statistical
error. Clearly capsize is not nearly as dangerous as sinking. Better
upside-down on the surface than right way up on the bottom.

Beaching is not that common.

At anchor they can behave poorly, especially in wind against tide
situations.

In cold climates they are harder to heat and all the deck space is not much
use- the converse is true in the tropics.

The spaciousness is great if a cat is large enough so that the bridgedeck is
a lounge area. This means that the staterooms are separate, the shower/heads
are separate, and the whole setup is more like a house. Monos are more like
a dormitory.

If, given the choice, I would certainly choose a large multi over a large
mono for cruising.

Peter HK


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Old January 11th 06, 07:13 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
Bryan
 
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Default Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?

Peter, I'm not sure why you say a cat is better than a mono? Certainly they
have different attributes but the choice of what makes one type of boat
better then another is strictly personal. I grew up racing monohulls and
that is what I feel comfortable on. I do see the advantages of a cat: room,
sailing flat, shallow draft, but I also see advantages in a mono: load
carrying ability, more seaworthy, softer ride.

Buying a boat is a personal decision. What is better for you may be worse
for me.

Fair winds,

Bryan

"Peter HK" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
nk.net...

So why do people buy cruising catamarans if monohulls in
the same price range are just as spacious and can go just
as fast ?

1. Shallower draft
2. They can be parked on the beach
3. They don't sink as easily
4. They don't roll like monohulls
5. ???

"Bryan" wrote:
We raced our Schock 35 for many years and often there
was a multihull fleet sailing the same course. F-28 Corsair
Trimarans and others of the same ilk. We were very rarely
beaten around the course by those multihulls.. I would
tend to agree that in general a large monohull will be as
fast if not faster than a cruising cat.


There are a number of errors in logic in the above post.

People buy cruising catamarans because they are better than cruising
monos, albeit generally more expensive.

Firstly let me make a comment about speed. In this perennial argument
there always seems to be the anecdotal statement that someone in a mono
somewhere beat a multi around a course and that means that multis aren't
faster.

Let me point out the reality. Cruising multis (of similar size) are slower
than racing monos. Racing multis are faster than cruising monos. Racing
multis are faster than racing monos (clearly evident from all the long
distant records and also from the America's cup farce in NZ between the
huge mono and the multi half its size where the cat annihilated the mono
to windward and held back off the the breeze so as not to jeopardize the
subsequent court case). Cruising multis are faster than cruising monos-
but not by much as both tend to be overloaded and the evidence that I have
seen suggests about a 10% difference.

Shallow draft is great.

Movement under sail is arguable as multis have a sharper motion but the
lack of heel is a big plus. On my cruising cat we never had a glass spill
even in 40- 50 knots ( though I admit we weren't beating into it!).

Non-sinkability is a huge safety plus and forgotten by the mono brigade.
Here in Oz in the last 25-30 years there have been no deaths from multi
capsizes but well over 200 deaths from mono sinkings. Multis here are
popular and account for 25-30% of boats cruising, so it's not a
statistical error. Clearly capsize is not nearly as dangerous as sinking.
Better upside-down on the surface than right way up on the bottom.

Beaching is not that common.

At anchor they can behave poorly, especially in wind against tide
situations.

In cold climates they are harder to heat and all the deck space is not
much use- the converse is true in the tropics.

The spaciousness is great if a cat is large enough so that the bridgedeck
is a lounge area. This means that the staterooms are separate, the
shower/heads are separate, and the whole setup is more like a house. Monos
are more like a dormitory.

If, given the choice, I would certainly choose a large multi over a large
mono for cruising.

Peter HK



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Old January 11th 06, 08:52 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
Peter HK
 
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Default Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?


"Bryan" wrote in message
...
Peter, I'm not sure why you say a cat is better than a mono? Certainly
they have different attributes but the choice of what makes one type of
boat better then another is strictly personal. I grew up racing monohulls
and that is what I feel comfortable on. I do see the advantages of a cat:
room, sailing flat, shallow draft, but I also see advantages in a mono:
load carrying ability, more seaworthy, softer ride.

Buying a boat is a personal decision. What is better for you may be worse
for me.

Fair winds,

Bryan


I agree with you entirely- we all see different priorities and have
different opinions. To me cats seem to have advantages over monos for the
things that are important to me and for the type of cruising I wanted to do.

Perhaps I should have made that clearer.

Having said that, now that I have given up cruising, I have a trailerable
mono for local daysailing. It has advantages that suit me at the moment. I'm
even thinking about power in the future (don't tell anyone) ;-)

Peter HK


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Old January 12th 06, 06:41 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
sherwindu
 
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Default Why do people buy cruising catamarans ?

One question nobody has addressed yet is what happens when a cat
capsizes? There
is no natural righting moment, as with a mono hull. I have never even
sailed on a cat
myself, but the heeling of a mono hull seems to offer some comfort
advantages, because the combination of sails and pendulum keel act as a
kind of 'shock absorber' in wavy conditions. I would prefer to be
heeled over and on a steady lean than bounced up and down as one than
another hull is lifted and dropped by a wave, especially in
short choppy seas. Long rolling waves would probably somewhat nullify
this advantage. I am referring more to waves on the beam, but there
probably is some
effect on a close hauled tack.

Sherwin D.

wrote:

So why do people buy cruising catamarans if monohulls in
the same price range are just as spacious and can go just
as fast ?

1. Shallower draft
2. They can be parked on the beach
3. They don't sink as easily
4. They don't roll like monohulls
5. ???

"Bryan" wrote:
We raced our Schock 35 for many years and often there
was a multihull fleet sailing the same course. F-28 Corsair
Trimarans and others of the same ilk. We were very rarely
beaten around the course by those multihulls.. I would
tend to agree that in general a large monohull will be as
fast if not faster than a cruising cat.




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