The possible confusion for those using the WH passage, is that for those
entering the passage from the Buzzards Bay side
might be expecting to see the normal "Red Right Returning", but obviously,
the opposite applies.
My best suggestion for solving this is to look at a small scale chart of the
area to get an overall view of the general direction of the buoys,
since the "N-S" "E-W" for the East Coast, coming from sea can lead to
confusion.
Since the main entrance to WH is from the Nantucket/Vineyard sound, all the
buoys associated with that and/or any side channels, reflect that
direction.........G clear as mud.

otn

"richard" wrote in message
oups.com...
It still amazes me that there is no better system than red and green
bouys that change and mean just the opposite halfway thru a difficult
channel. I have seen this in a number of places such as Woods Hole or
the Coast of Maine or Boston and nearby harbors. I use charts more
often than not and almost always in unfamilar waters, but I hope that I
will live to see the day when one can look at the navigational aids and
know right away what they mean.
Actually, I do kind of like to figure them out as we are going along.
Adds excitment to the day. and I do own a power boat so I tend to have
less time to figure it out than a sail boat, but I don't draw as much
and I can hit reverse pretty hard if I needed to.

No terribly clear but, buoys were never intended to be used without
charts.

--

Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in news:qPkjf.51442$uC3.511
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

No terribly clear but, buoys were never intended to be used without
charts.


I would disagree with that statement, to a point.
The general flow of buoys (sticking to the East Coast,USA) is North to
South, East to West (E-W is "old school") coming from sea.
What this meant was that if you should see a buoy while moving along the
coast and for whatever reason, you didn't have a chart/chart out of
date/you're lost, based on the "N-S", you would know which side to pass.
With out a doubt, a chart is your best bet to see and understand what the
buoys mean, but be sure you look at the "BIG" picture of an area to check
the overall direction the system is taking.

otn

A basic principle of buoy philosophy that is often overlooked is that
they mark what is safe; not what is dangerous. There may be a buoy by
an isolated shoal but it is there to show you where the deep water is
on the preferred side. A patch of water isn't safe just because there
is no buoy. That's why you need charts.

NO navigational aid or device is intended to be used alone.

The essence of my point is that the buoy arrangement in a place like
Woods Hole is not deficient just because some navigators will need a
chart to understand it readily or to orient themselves when they get
there.

With a smidgen of understanding, Woods Hole is a piece of cake, even
with the current behind you. You just go straight through into the
harbor and then head out into the sound. I've done it many times even
in a kayak and mostly just gone with the flow.

It's when people without sufficient understanding of current, rudders,
boats, and water, try to turn into the other channel because it's the
shorter and seems the obvious thing to do that the Coast Guard gets
called out.

--

Roger Long



"otnmbrd" wrote in message
25.201...
"Roger Long" wrote in news:qPkjf.51442$uC3.511
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

No terribly clear but, buoys were never intended to be used without
charts.


I would disagree with that statement, to a point.
The general flow of buoys (sticking to the East Coast,USA) is North
to
South, East to West (E-W is "old school") coming from sea.
What this meant was that if you should see a buoy while moving along
the
coast and for whatever reason, you didn't have a chart/chart out of
date/you're lost, based on the "N-S", you would know which side to
pass.
With out a doubt, a chart is your best bet to see and understand
what the
buoys mean, but be sure you look at the "BIG" picture of an area to
check
the overall direction the system is taking.

otn

I'll intersperse some comments......

"Roger Long" wrote in message
news
A basic principle of buoy philosophy that is often overlooked is that they
mark what is safe; not what is dangerous.

G Point of view..... I'd say they do both to varying degrees.

There may be a buoy by
an isolated shoal but it is there to show you where the deep water is on
the preferred side. A patch of water isn't safe just because there is no
buoy. That's why you need charts.

No argument.


NO navigational aid or device is intended to be used alone.

No argument.


The essence of my point is that the buoy arrangement in a place like Woods
Hole is not deficient just because some navigators will need a chart to
understand it readily or to orient themselves when they get there.

Would agree ..... however EG having discussed this channel with a number
of people who are approaching from
Buzzards Bay, I can understand their initial confusion and reason for it.


With a smidgen of understanding, Woods Hole is a piece of cake, even with
the current behind you. You just go straight through into the harbor and
then head out into the sound. I've done it many times even in a kayak and
mostly just gone with the flow.

G I always preferred "Broadway".


It's when people without sufficient understanding of current, rudders,
boats, and water, try to turn into the other channel because it's the
shorter and seems the obvious thing to do that the Coast Guard gets called
out.

Reminds me of another incident ..... was coming through from Buzzards Bay
and made my turn down "Broadway" followed by a larger sloop than mine. After
settling myself out on course, looked back at other sloop only to see him
doing circles at the corner. He finally followed the main route after coming
too close to one buoy.

otn

otnmbrd wrote:
"Roger Long" wrote in news:qPkjf.51442$uC3.511
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:


No terribly clear but, buoys were never intended to be used without
charts.



I would disagree with that statement, to a point.
The general flow of buoys (sticking to the East Coast,USA) is North to
South, East to West (E-W is "old school") coming from sea.
What this meant was that if you should see a buoy while moving along the
coast and for whatever reason, you didn't have a chart/chart out of
date/you're lost, based on the "N-S", you would know which side to pass.
With out a doubt, a chart is your best bet to see and understand what the
buoys mean, but be sure you look at the "BIG" picture of an area to check
the overall direction the system is taking.

otn
That wouldn't work around Vancouver Island. I think your N-S, E-W
premise is wrong. The buoyage system is meant to relate to the
direction of flooding tides and around here it is very difficult,
without a chart and/or tide table, to know which direction the flood goes.

Gary wrote in news:1vNjf.6503$Eq5.2807@pd7tw1no:

otnmbrd wrote:
"Roger Long" wrote in news:qPkjf.51442$uC3.511
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:


No terribly clear but, buoys were never intended to be used without
charts.



I would disagree with that statement, to a point.
The general flow of buoys (sticking to the East Coast,USA) is North
to South, East to West (E-W is "old school") coming from sea.
What this meant was that if you should see a buoy while moving along
the coast and for whatever reason, you didn't have a chart/chart out
of date/you're lost, based on the "N-S", you would know which side to
pass. With out a doubt, a chart is your best bet to see and
understand what the buoys mean, but be sure you look at the "BIG"
picture of an area to check the overall direction the system is
taking.

otn
That wouldn't work around Vancouver Island. I think your N-S, E-W
premise is wrong. The buoyage system is meant to relate to the
direction of flooding tides and around here it is very difficult,
without a chart and/or tide table, to know which direction the flood
goes.


The N-S is East Coast ..... West Coast is S-N (W-E, old school) and
again this is a general along the coast, coming from sea.
Once you get into (In your case, the Straits and Pujet sound) an
"inland" area, you will need to understand the flow of your area.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting running without charts .... if
anything, I prefer having a small and large scale of an area I'm
transiting ( the small may help you determine tide flow .... barring
stopping and watching, if you don't have tables or some other means of
determining).
My point was, that knowing some buoy basics, can help you figure out a
system as well keep you in clear water when running an area you may not
be readily familiar with.

otn

otnmbrd wrote:
Gary wrote in news:1vNjf.6503$Eq5.2807@pd7tw1no:


otnmbrd wrote:

"Roger Long" wrote in news:qPkjf.51442$uC3.511
:



No terribly clear but, buoys were never intended to be used without
charts.



I would disagree with that statement, to a point.
The general flow of buoys (sticking to the East Coast,USA) is North
to South, East to West (E-W is "old school") coming from sea.
What this meant was that if you should see a buoy while moving along
the coast and for whatever reason, you didn't have a chart/chart out
of date/you're lost, based on the "N-S", you would know which side to
pass. With out a doubt, a chart is your best bet to see and
understand what the buoys mean, but be sure you look at the "BIG"
picture of an area to check the overall direction the system is
taking.

otn

That wouldn't work around Vancouver Island. I think your N-S, E-W
premise is wrong. The buoyage system is meant to relate to the
direction of flooding tides and around here it is very difficult,
without a chart and/or tide table, to know which direction the flood
goes.



The N-S is East Coast ..... West Coast is S-N (W-E, old school) and
again this is a general along the coast, coming from sea.
Once you get into (In your case, the Straits and Pujet sound) an
"inland" area, you will need to understand the flow of your area.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting running without charts .... if
anything, I prefer having a small and large scale of an area I'm
transiting ( the small may help you determine tide flow .... barring
stopping and watching, if you don't have tables or some other means of
determining).
My point was, that knowing some buoy basics, can help you figure out a
system as well keep you in clear water when running an area you may not
be readily familiar with.

otn
The NS and SN of the two coasts is the direction of the flood tides in
general. The actual rule for buoys is "returning from seaward" which is
defacto the same as the flood tide. It has nothing to do with the NS/SN
stuff. Never mind the buoys, have a chart. Buoys drag, break free, are
hit by ships, get covered in bird****, and are frequently wrong. Always
look at the best scale, up-to-date chart for the area. If you are over
66 feet, it's the law.

"Gary" wrote in message news:

The NS and SN of the two coasts is the direction of the flood tides in
general. The actual rule for buoys is "returning from seaward" which is
defacto the same as the flood tide. It has nothing to do with the NS/SN
stuff. Never mind the buoys, have a chart. Buoys drag, break free, are
hit by ships, get covered in bird****, and are frequently wrong. Always
look at the best scale, up-to-date chart for the area. If you are over 66
feet, it's the law.

Find the latest Bowditch and read Article 519 .......

otn