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  #21   Report Post  
Old November 30th 05, 11:19 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
Roger Long
 
Posts: n/a
Default On serious bilge pumping........

What do you mean, "change and mean just the opposite"? The buoys in
the Woods Hole are absolutely consistent and perfectly easy to
understand just by looking at the chart before hand.

Have you ever looked at a chart?

http://mapserver.maptech.com/homepag...latlontype=DMS

--

Roger Long



"richard" wrote in message
oups.com...
It still amazes me that there is no better system than red and green
bouys that change and mean just the opposite halfway thru a
difficult
channel. I have seen this in a number of places such as Woods Hole
or
the Coast of Maine or Boston and nearby harbors. I use charts more
often than not and almost always in unfamilar waters, but I hope
that I
will live to see the day when one can look at the navigational aids
and
know right away what they mean.
Actually, I do kind of like to figure them out as we are going
along.
Adds excitment to the day. and I do own a power boat so I tend to
have
less time to figure it out than a sail boat, but I don't draw as
much
and I can hit reverse pretty hard if I needed to.




  #22   Report Post  
Old November 30th 05, 02:47 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
Jeff
 
Posts: n/a
Default On serious bilge pumping........


The colors don't reverse at Wood's Hole, or any of the nearby Holes.
The do reverse in the Cape Cod Canal, but there are no buoys in the
canal itself so it isn't very confusing.

I'm sure there a few reverses left in Maine, but I think most were
"fixed" back around 1993, to the annoyance of those of use who were
there that summer!

richard wrote:
It still amazes me that there is no better system than red and green
bouys that change and mean just the opposite halfway thru a difficult
channel. I have seen this in a number of places such as Woods Hole or
the Coast of Maine or Boston and nearby harbors. I use charts more
often than not and almost always in unfamilar waters, but I hope that I
will live to see the day when one can look at the navigational aids and
know right away what they mean.
Actually, I do kind of like to figure them out as we are going along.
Adds excitment to the day. and I do own a power boat so I tend to have
less time to figure it out than a sail boat, but I don't draw as much
and I can hit reverse pretty hard if I needed to.

  #23   Report Post  
Old November 30th 05, 04:11 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
Wayne.B
 
Posts: n/a
Default On serious bilge pumping........

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:19:53 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Have you ever looked at a chart?

http://mapserver.maptech.com/homepag...latlontype=DMS

===================================

I like this view better:

http://tinyurl.com/de2wo

I agree that the buoys are consistent (no reversal), but somehow the
chart does not adequately prepare you for what you are about to
encounter. I've been through the "hole" many times in different boats
and I still find it to be one of the most intimidating places I've
ever negotiated. Things happen really quickly and there's barely
enough time to sort out the conflicting visual images that present
themselves, sort out the cross currents pulling you sideways, avoid
the locals fishing in mid passage, and select the correct channel.
  #24   Report Post  
Old November 30th 05, 04:53 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
otnmbrd
 
Posts: n/a
Default On serious bilge pumping........

The possible confusion for those using the WH passage, is that for those
entering the passage from the Buzzards Bay side
might be expecting to see the normal "Red Right Returning", but obviously,
the opposite applies.
My best suggestion for solving this is to look at a small scale chart of the
area to get an overall view of the general direction of the buoys,
since the "N-S" "E-W" for the East Coast, coming from sea can lead to
confusion.
Since the main entrance to WH is from the Nantucket/Vineyard sound, all the
buoys associated with that and/or any side channels, reflect that
direction.........G clear as mud.

otn

"richard" wrote in message
oups.com...
It still amazes me that there is no better system than red and green
bouys that change and mean just the opposite halfway thru a difficult
channel. I have seen this in a number of places such as Woods Hole or
the Coast of Maine or Boston and nearby harbors. I use charts more
often than not and almost always in unfamilar waters, but I hope that I
will live to see the day when one can look at the navigational aids and
know right away what they mean.
Actually, I do kind of like to figure them out as we are going along.
Adds excitment to the day. and I do own a power boat so I tend to have
less time to figure it out than a sail boat, but I don't draw as much
and I can hit reverse pretty hard if I needed to.



  #25   Report Post  
Old November 30th 05, 04:54 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
Roger Long
 
Posts: n/a
Default On serious bilge pumping........

No terribly clear but, buoys were never intended to be used without
charts.

--

Roger Long






  #26   Report Post  
Old November 30th 05, 05:23 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
otnmbrd
 
Posts: n/a
Default On serious bilge pumping........

"Roger Long" wrote in news:qPkjf.51442$uC3.511
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

No terribly clear but, buoys were never intended to be used without
charts.


I would disagree with that statement, to a point.
The general flow of buoys (sticking to the East Coast,USA) is North to
South, East to West (E-W is "old school") coming from sea.
What this meant was that if you should see a buoy while moving along the
coast and for whatever reason, you didn't have a chart/chart out of
date/you're lost, based on the "N-S", you would know which side to pass.
With out a doubt, a chart is your best bet to see and understand what the
buoys mean, but be sure you look at the "BIG" picture of an area to check
the overall direction the system is taking.

otn
  #27   Report Post  
Old November 30th 05, 07:39 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
Roger Long
 
Posts: n/a
Default On serious bilge pumping........

A basic principle of buoy philosophy that is often overlooked is that
they mark what is safe; not what is dangerous. There may be a buoy by
an isolated shoal but it is there to show you where the deep water is
on the preferred side. A patch of water isn't safe just because there
is no buoy. That's why you need charts.

NO navigational aid or device is intended to be used alone.

The essence of my point is that the buoy arrangement in a place like
Woods Hole is not deficient just because some navigators will need a
chart to understand it readily or to orient themselves when they get
there.

With a smidgen of understanding, Woods Hole is a piece of cake, even
with the current behind you. You just go straight through into the
harbor and then head out into the sound. I've done it many times even
in a kayak and mostly just gone with the flow.

It's when people without sufficient understanding of current, rudders,
boats, and water, try to turn into the other channel because it's the
shorter and seems the obvious thing to do that the Coast Guard gets
called out.

--

Roger Long



"otnmbrd" wrote in message
25.201...
"Roger Long" wrote in news:qPkjf.51442$uC3.511
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

No terribly clear but, buoys were never intended to be used without
charts.


I would disagree with that statement, to a point.
The general flow of buoys (sticking to the East Coast,USA) is North
to
South, East to West (E-W is "old school") coming from sea.
What this meant was that if you should see a buoy while moving along
the
coast and for whatever reason, you didn't have a chart/chart out of
date/you're lost, based on the "N-S", you would know which side to
pass.
With out a doubt, a chart is your best bet to see and understand
what the
buoys mean, but be sure you look at the "BIG" picture of an area to
check
the overall direction the system is taking.

otn



  #28   Report Post  
Old December 1st 05, 12:35 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
otnmbrd
 
Posts: n/a
Default On serious bilge pumping........

I'll intersperse some comments......

"Roger Long" wrote in message
news
A basic principle of buoy philosophy that is often overlooked is that they
mark what is safe; not what is dangerous.

G Point of view..... I'd say they do both to varying degrees.

There may be a buoy by
an isolated shoal but it is there to show you where the deep water is on
the preferred side. A patch of water isn't safe just because there is no
buoy. That's why you need charts.


No argument.


NO navigational aid or device is intended to be used alone.


No argument.


The essence of my point is that the buoy arrangement in a place like Woods
Hole is not deficient just because some navigators will need a chart to
understand it readily or to orient themselves when they get there.


Would agree ..... however EG having discussed this channel with a number
of people who are approaching from
Buzzards Bay, I can understand their initial confusion and reason for it.


With a smidgen of understanding, Woods Hole is a piece of cake, even with
the current behind you. You just go straight through into the harbor and
then head out into the sound. I've done it many times even in a kayak and
mostly just gone with the flow.


G I always preferred "Broadway".


It's when people without sufficient understanding of current, rudders,
boats, and water, try to turn into the other channel because it's the
shorter and seems the obvious thing to do that the Coast Guard gets called
out.


Reminds me of another incident ..... was coming through from Buzzards Bay
and made my turn down "Broadway" followed by a larger sloop than mine. After
settling myself out on course, looked back at other sloop only to see him
doing circles at the corner. He finally followed the main route after coming
too close to one buoy.

otn


  #29   Report Post  
Old December 1st 05, 01:50 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
richard
 
Posts: n/a
Default On serious bilge pumping........

You are right Roger, I was thinking of another place and yes, I have
looked at a chart. Do it all the time. Actually love charting. When I
bought my first GPS I would not let myself use it until I took a course
related to reading charts. (Paper charts, that is). I think that maybe
you missed my point. I am sure that you have been cruising at some
point in your life, where you were leaving one harbor and entering
another and the "red on right" changed to "green on right" becuase you
were changing from "leaving" to "returning". If that make sense. and I
am sure that some times a bouy or nav aid does not make sense to you
right away. My point is that it is not a perfect system and will keep
improving. I am sure that you have been to places where one time the
markers were one way, and then they changed them and maybe years later
they changed them again
anyway safe cruising to us all.
my boat goes out of the water tomorrow for the season. we had to cut it
a little shorter this year. we usally go from April to Dec or Jan. Not
to bad for a pleasure boat from chilly Boston.

  #30   Report Post  
Old December 2nd 05, 01:32 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
Gary
 
Posts: n/a
Default On serious bilge pumping........

otnmbrd wrote:
"Roger Long" wrote in news:qPkjf.51442$uC3.511
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:


No terribly clear but, buoys were never intended to be used without
charts.



I would disagree with that statement, to a point.
The general flow of buoys (sticking to the East Coast,USA) is North to
South, East to West (E-W is "old school") coming from sea.
What this meant was that if you should see a buoy while moving along the
coast and for whatever reason, you didn't have a chart/chart out of
date/you're lost, based on the "N-S", you would know which side to pass.
With out a doubt, a chart is your best bet to see and understand what the
buoys mean, but be sure you look at the "BIG" picture of an area to check
the overall direction the system is taking.

otn

That wouldn't work around Vancouver Island. I think your N-S, E-W
premise is wrong. The buoyage system is meant to relate to the
direction of flooding tides and around here it is very difficult,
without a chart and/or tide table, to know which direction the flood goes.


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