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#1
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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On serious bilge pumping........
We had occasion two weekends ago to reconsider the matter of removing
large amounts of water from a boat in a hurry. This event caused by crossing inside of the green day mark #3 marking the Middle Ground ledge in Woods Hole, MA. While the events leading up to this are still being debated among those onboard, part of the problem appeared to be a fixation on the part of the skipper/helmsman with electronic charting over the real world. If the course had been adjusted when the alarm had first been raised,(by humans) or the second or third time, there would have been no incident to reflect on. Driving a 20,000 lb, 38 foot sloop drawing about 6 feet over a ledge with 3 or 4 feet of water over it is an experience I would not wish to repeat. The full keel and skeg hung rudder took the brunt of the impact and the bottom of the ruder skeg with it's gudgeon were left on the ledge (presumably). The rudder dropped straight down and the now two extra feet of leverage given overcame the strength of the interface between the rudder's stuffing box and the hull, ripping open a 2-3 inch hole, depending on where the rudder/shaft assembly was leaning at any given moment. The two 2500 GPH bilge pumps were immediately overwhelmed. It is a sobering sight to see salt water rising inexorably toward the air intake on a diesel engine. In the confusion, I could not decipher which hose was the raw water intake to add the engine cooling capacity to the bilge pumping (and I did not wish to risk my hands in the belts of the dual alternators). During this, others managed to leverage the rudder quadrant/shaft into the upright position, mostly closing the hole, and slowing the ingress of water to a point where the pumps could almost hold their own. The arrival of a local fisherman in response to the radio call was comforting, in that a tow line kept us from additional impact with other natural hard spots in the passage. The Coast Guard 41 footer has impressive dewatering capabilities in both portable and built in pumps. We only needed the portable gas pump to establish equilibrium. It was a long 30 minutes until they arrived from their training mission off of Edgartown, however. Once we were dewatered, and all the floorboard hatches were put back in place (they tend to float off at some point) TowBoat US took over. While our pumps were mostly capable of holding us while we were under tow to a boat yard, they had put aboard two of these: http://www.starmarinedepot.com/detai...duct_id=RU1416 You have to look a little harder to find these to purchase, than the 2500 gph, but I think one will be high on my list of must haves for the coming years. It is interesting to look at the loss due to "lift" and voltage, even this powerful appearing pump actually has. 6 foot lift would not be uncommon in a boat that has standing headroom in the cabin. Between lift and the voltage drop to 12v vs 13.5 when an engine is running, even this pumps capacity gets reduced by about 30% Just thought I'd share. Jonathan -- I am building my daughter an Argie 10 sailing dinghy, check it out: http://home.comcast.net/~jonsailr |
#2
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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On serious bilge pumping........
Ah, that brings back the memories. It was a hoot sitting in my
waterfront office at Woods Hole Oceanographic and watching boats hit and miss that ledge. People would come down with the tide behind them alarmed at the shore going by faster than the boat usually could move. They would throttle back, and back, and back trying to slow down until they were dead in the water and then wonder why nothing happened when they turned the wheel to swing into the right channel. Others would come down that nice lane of red and green buoys without a chart and then head between the next red and green they saw. It's just that one is in one channel and the other in the opposite leg. Some of us once worked through a Labor Day weekend just so we could watch the show. I remember a big Dutch botter yacht towing a fair size I/O powerboat with an outboard behind that and then a dinghy. He got fooled by the current, slowed below steerageway, hit the buoy just before the ledge broadside, bounced off, and then towed the whole assemblage upstream and around the buoy (he must have used stout towlines) as the current carried him before sticking briefly on the ledge and then heading off into Vineyard Sound like he did this every day. I wonder if there is a spot in New England where more boats, many with very experienced skippers, have come to grief. -- Roger Long |
#3
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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On serious bilge pumping........
Roger Long wrote:
Ah, that brings back the memories. It was a hoot sitting in my waterfront office at Woods Hole Oceanographic and watching boats hit and miss that ledge. People would come down with the tide behind them alarmed at the shore going by faster than the boat usually could move. They would throttle back, and back, and back trying to slow down until they were dead in the water and then wonder why nothing happened when they turned the wheel to swing into the right channel. Others would come down that nice lane of red and green buoys without a chart and then head between the next red and green they saw. It's just that one is in one channel and the other in the opposite leg. Some of us once worked through a Labor Day weekend just so we could watch the show. I remember a big Dutch botter yacht towing a fair size I/O powerboat with an outboard behind that and then a dinghy. He got fooled by the current, slowed below steerageway, hit the buoy just before the ledge broadside, bounced off, and then towed the whole assemblage upstream and around the buoy (he must have used stout towlines) as the current carried him before sticking briefly on the ledge and then heading off into Vineyard Sound like he did this every day. I wonder if there is a spot in New England where more boats, many with very experienced skippers, have come to grief. Yes, the CG was pretty blasČ about the whole thing. Their remark, "Oh, we get about one a week in season, it's been a little slow the last few weeks." I kept thinking, "He's gonna turn now, he's gonna turn now". But, he didn't He later said that when the "picture finally "clicked" into his head, he was afraid of getting swept into the daymark and adding tangling the rigging, bringing down the rig, on top of the now certain collision. So he figured the strongest part of the boat was probably the leading edge of the keel anyway. The prelim estimate is 25K on the boat, he paid 60K for, just about 20 hours earlier. Ouch..... Jonathan -- I am building my daughter an Argie 10 sailing dinghy, check it out: http://home.comcast.net/~jonsailr |
#4
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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On serious bilge pumping........
Jonathan W. wrote:
We had occasion two weekends ago to reconsider the matter of removing large amounts of water from a boat in a hurry. This event caused by crossing inside of the green day mark #3 marking the Middle Ground ledge in Woods Hole, MA. While the events leading up to this are still being debated among those onboard, part of the problem appeared to be a fixation on the part of the skipper/helmsman with electronic charting over the real world. If the course had been adjusted when the alarm had first been raised,(by humans) or the second or third time, there would have been no incident to reflect on. Driving a 20,000 lb, 38 foot sloop drawing about 6 feet over a ledge with 3 or 4 feet of water over it is an experience I would not wish to repeat. The full keel and skeg hung rudder took the brunt of the impact and the bottom of the ruder skeg with it's gudgeon were left on the ledge (presumably). The rudder dropped straight down and the now two extra feet of leverage given overcame the strength of the interface between the rudder's stuffing box and the hull, ripping open a 2-3 inch hole, depending on where the rudder/shaft assembly was leaning at any given moment. The two 2500 GPH bilge pumps were immediately overwhelmed. It is a sobering sight to see salt water rising inexorably toward the air intake on a diesel engine. In the confusion, I could not decipher which hose was the raw water intake to add the engine cooling capacity to the bilge pumping (and I did not wish to risk my hands in the belts of the dual alternators). During this, others managed to leverage the rudder quadrant/shaft into the upright position, mostly closing the hole, and slowing the ingress of water to a point where the pumps could almost hold their own. The arrival of a local fisherman in response to the radio call was comforting, in that a tow line kept us from additional impact with other natural hard spots in the passage. The Coast Guard 41 footer has impressive dewatering capabilities in both portable and built in pumps. We only needed the portable gas pump to establish equilibrium. It was a long 30 minutes until they arrived from their training mission off of Edgartown, however. Once we were dewatered, and all the floorboard hatches were put back in place (they tend to float off at some point) TowBoat US took over. While our pumps were mostly capable of holding us while we were under tow to a boat yard, they had put aboard two of these: http://www.starmarinedepot.com/detai...duct_id=RU1416 You have to look a little harder to find these to purchase, than the 2500 gph, but I think one will be high on my list of must haves for the coming years. It is interesting to look at the loss due to "lift" and voltage, even this powerful appearing pump actually has. 6 foot lift would not be uncommon in a boat that has standing headroom in the cabin. Between lift and the voltage drop to 12v vs 13.5 when an engine is running, even this pumps capacity gets reduced by about 30% Just thought I'd share. Jonathan Interesting point. I built a "golf club" bilge pump, so I can empty the dinghy without getting into it. It has a small battery pack from a bag phone, and I though to improve it's operation my adding a flexible tail long enough to drop in the water whilst in use. The effect on pumping capacity was remarkable. The "down" side of the hose helps with a syphon effect to reduce the workload on the tiny bilge pump at the end of the stiff pipe handle. Now, the only work the pump does is effectively to move the water sideways, not up. All bilge pumps would benefit from this configuration, but permanently fixed bilge pumps so arranged must include a vented loop, defeating the syphon assist, it seems, and, I might add, rightly so, unless diligently supervised. So much for safety regulations. Your pump would be more efficient if it has a tail down to the water to be used only while actually trying not to sink. Unattended pumps must not offer any possibility of syphoning water into the boat. Terry K |
#5
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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On serious bilge pumping........
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:41:53 -0500, "Jonathan W."
wrote: We had occasion two weekends ago to reconsider the matter of removing large amounts of water from a boat in a hurry. This event caused by crossing inside of the green day mark #3 marking the Middle Ground ledge in Woods Hole, MA. Thanks for another instructive lesson on why eyes trump electronics. You were lucky and you didn't lose your head, which probably saved your boat. Did you consider fothering a sail around the stern, or did you know that you could restore the rudder? R. |
#6
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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On serious bilge pumping........
Jonathan W. wrote:
snip... Driving a 20,000 lb, 38 foot sloop drawing about 6 feet over a ledge with 3 or 4 feet of water over it is an experience I would not wish to repeat. The full keel and skeg hung rudder took the brunt of the impact and the bottom of the ruder skeg with it's gudgeon were left on the ledge (presumably). The rudder dropped straight down and the now two extra feet of leverage given overcame the strength of the interface between the rudder's stuffing box and the hull, ripping open a 2-3 inch hole, depending on where the rudder/shaft assembly was leaning at any given moment. snip... We did the same thing with a Viking 28 about 5 years ago. I was at the helm but blame it on the owner because he insisted we sail up a narrow channel with the wind on our nose. I went a bit wide past the red buoy while tacking and ran into a large boulder field. What a sound smashing into boulder after boulder while trying to sail out forcing the boat to heel as much as possible. Luckily we weren't traveling too fast and suffered no permanent damage. Another time ran into a ledge during a regatta race opposite our clubhouse on a Mirage 33. Had to be towed off in fromt of the entire fleet.....oh the humanity! Again damage minimal. |
#7
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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On serious bilge pumping........
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:14:23 -0500, "Jonathan W."
wrote: The prelim estimate is 25K on the boat, he paid 60K for, just about 20 hours earlier. Ouch..... =================================== The insurance company is going to love that. Hope he has an iron clad binder in place. |
#8
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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On serious bilge pumping........
Yoe Don where were you Halifax Harbor or Mahone Bay or Prospect?? What
ledge. Mooron will probably wish to know. Ha Ha. Don White wrote: Jonathan W. wrote: snip... Driving a 20,000 lb, 38 foot sloop drawing about 6 feet over a ledge with 3 or 4 feet of water over it is an experience I would not wish to repeat. The full keel and skeg hung rudder took the brunt of the impact and the bottom of the ruder skeg with it's gudgeon were left on the ledge (presumably). The rudder dropped straight down and the now two extra feet of leverage given overcame the strength of the interface between the rudder's stuffing box and the hull, ripping open a 2-3 inch hole, depending on where the rudder/shaft assembly was leaning at any given moment. snip... We did the same thing with a Viking 28 about 5 years ago. I was at the helm but blame it on the owner because he insisted we sail up a narrow channel with the wind on our nose. I went a bit wide past the red buoy while tacking and ran into a large boulder field. What a sound smashing into boulder after boulder while trying to sail out forcing the boat to heel as much as possible. Luckily we weren't traveling too fast and suffered no permanent damage. Another time ran into a ledge during a regatta race opposite our clubhouse on a Mirage 33. Had to be towed off in fromt of the entire fleet.....oh the humanity! Again damage minimal. |
#9
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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On serious bilge pumping........
Jonathan W. wrote:
We had occasion two weekends ago to reconsider the matter of removing large amounts of water from a boat in a hurry. This event caused by crossing inside of the green day mark #3 marking the Middle Ground ledge in Woods Hole, MA. While the events leading up to this are still being debated among those onboard, part of the problem appeared to be a fixation on the part of the skipper/helmsman with electronic charting over the real world. If the course had been adjusted when the alarm had first been raised,(by humans) or the second or third time, there would have been no incident to reflect on. ... Thanks for the description. I go through there several times a year and each time I have to remind my crew that things will come at us very fast. First of all, its hard to appreciate what a 6 knot current can do. And the chart normally used is a much larger scale than most people are used to; the marks at the corner are only about 75 yards apart. Normally, you can figure it out as you go, but this is a spot best handled at slack the first time through. The first time I let my wife take the helm she made the turn OK, but then looked over her shoulder, marveling at the buoy being pulled over. In that second we were swept across the channel almost into Nun 2. I've learned to give everyone a *very* wide berth there. |
#10
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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On serious bilge pumping........
Dry wrote:
Yoe Don where were you Halifax Harbor or Mahone Bay or Prospect?? What ledge. Mooron will probably wish to know. Ha Ha. Ist time in the Viking was off Barrie's Beach, Eastern Passage.(south of Lawler Island. The second time, in the Mirage 33 was at a 'Dr. ???'s ledge', East side of the Northwest Arm opposite the Royal NS Yacht Squadron. The one other time we grounded with me aboard was just north of Barrie's Beach on a sandbar as we were preparing to enter the narrow channelfrom the South. A large fishing boat was motoring south and our helmsman got nervous..edging too far over to Starboard. We were able to power off. |
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