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#2
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In article . com,
Mike G wrote: Can't give you legal but I had a buddy that asked me the same question for the same reason. My choice would be a sawed off or short as possible, read that riot gun which would probably be legal, 12 Ga pump shotgun loaded with #4 bird shot. Sawed Off in the US means barrel length less than 18", and would not be legal to own or posses on a US Flagged vessel. 18.25" barrel length shotguns are vary avalible in the USA, and legal to own and posses. At the ranges found on most boats the shotgun will require no great feats of marksmanship, the #4 shot will be deadly, and collateral damage from over penetration would be minimized. Sawed off or riot gun because a full barreled shotgun would be awkward to wield in the tight confines of a boat. You would not be picking them off at any great distance with the gun but it's be hell on a small boat packed with people when they got up close, and there isn't any sound quite as intimidating as the one of a shell being racked into the chamber of a shotgun. IMPORTANT NOTES If you should run into circumstance where such force was necessary and used it but failed to kill or seriously maim all the bad guys or, unlikely but possible, intimidate them into leaving, when they do gain control of the boat it is quite possible they may be just a tad put out with you and inclined to show it. Really bad bad guys tend to be skeptical of good guys with guns. It's a moral thing. If you should run into a time when you REALLY REALLY think you need to use the gun don't do anything stupid like telling them to go away or you'll shoot or put up their hands. Keep your mouth shut and start blasting. don't stop till there is no one left standing. You'll only have five shots in the magazine so practice speed loading. Extended Magazine Pump-Action 12 Ga. Shotguns are certainly available in the USA. This gives the weapon 8 rounds plus one in the Chamber, which should be enough firepower, to allow for reloading, after the first baradge at close range. IF you are not sure of a situation keep the firearm close at hand and out of sight and don't go waving it around like it's a magic wand. Keep it as your "ace in the hole". If you don't think you can do that don't waste money on a firearm. It'll only get you into more trouble then you would have been in without it. Good luck -- Mike G. Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net Bruce in alaska an FFL, from way back........ -- add a 2 before @ |
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#3
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On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 11:07:56 -0500, Mike G
wrote: IF you are not sure of a situation keep the firearm close at hand and out of sight and don't go waving it around like it's a magic wand. Keep it as your "ace in the hole". If you don't think you can do that don't waste money on a firearm. It'll only get you into more trouble then you would have been in without it. Whatever one's stance on guns in yachts this is very, very good advice. I haven't made up my mind yet, and I would have to train and get dozens of permits, etc., but I do agree that if you bring it out, don't stop shooting until everyone's dead or down. Of course, if you're wrong and you've killed the crew of a harmless bumboat, you'll rot in a tropical prison or make the Al-Jazeera "Beheading of the Day", but that's the chance you take. R. |
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#4
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rhys wrote:
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 11:07:56 -0500, Mike G wrote: IF you are not sure of a situation keep the firearm close at hand and out of sight and don't go waving it around like it's a magic wand. Keep it as your "ace in the hole". If you don't think you can do that don't waste money on a firearm. It'll only get you into more trouble then you would have been in without it. Whatever one's stance on guns in yachts this is very, very good advice. I haven't made up my mind yet, and I would have to train and get dozens of permits, etc., but I do agree that if you bring it out, don't stop shooting until everyone's dead or down. Of course, if you're wrong and you've killed the crew of a harmless bumboat, you'll rot in a tropical prison or make the Al-Jazeera "Beheading of the Day", but that's the chance you take. R. Isn't it strange, the distance to which paranoia can press one? I choose the pen. If I was a societal engineer, terror would have to be a major tool. If they are not 'after you', you relax, right? To be competitive, you need to be scared. A nervous trigger shoots in many directions. How would you inspire a nation? At least the RCMP has the guts to admit that they can't defend against every madman. Is there a really smart crackpot out there with a plan to kill everyone in revenge for being teased as a nurd, because he was too smart, and not smart enough to hide it? Lordy, it get tiresome pretending to be deaf and stupid. Unlocked cockpit doors are one thing, where are there other weaknesses still left ajar? Oops! don't say it here! The paranoid over reaction could get you branded as a danger to security. Where is the sweet spot for terror / stress / productivity / cost benefit? Who's managing this situation? Is the oil price high enough for all you Texans, yet? I want an electric car. 150 km, 100 km/h, 5 hour recharge is fine. Bring on the nuclear power. Bury the waste where it came from, silicated into glass. Let's get to work on solar shingles. If civilisation dissolves or nukes itself into Einstein's fourth world war, fought with sticks, and future cave men find purple glowing glass attractive jewellery, we deserved it. Only Education gives us any chance at all. Radioactive H2 and H3 can be recycled, seperated out of watery wastes and that's where it comes from, anyway. Let's get over this nuclear bull****. There's far greater danger in gold mines, with cyanide lagoons just waiting for a typhoon, government controlled schools, and dirty DEW line sites to clean up. C'mon! The Japanese electric car Eliica looks like a Citröen, and France depends on nukes. Where do they tip it? Overall, BEST weapon for a sailboat: satellite linked security cameras, or counterfeit warning placards complete with phoney satellite dome, and a flamethrower disguised as a beer can or vent cowl, Zippo in hand. Doubt not, a spray of gasoline in the face and chest from a beer can full of it, accompanied by a deft c'ling, shcict, poof, and buddy is all lit up! First, you offer him a real beer, show that he is on live tv, and his mother might be watching, "Say Hi!", then, you shoot him with his own gun, after you help him into the water to put out the flames. All you need is a laptop with a camera, to jab his brains out with a pen and a line, hook and sinker. Just keep him unparanoid enough to not worry about guns on boats, again. You are far more likely to get swindled by a bank or government. Unless you go looking for trouble. Terry K |
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#5
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Wow Terry,
That was quite a stream of consciousness! I do agree with you on the alternate energy sources though, and the oil prices are quite high enough, thank you. OT/ [with China and India industrializing at an amazing rate I think the world is finding that we should have paid more attention to the "energy crises" back in 1973 when it first reared its ugly head] \OT As far as guns on boats is concerned, this thread has been hashed, re-hashed, hashed-over, re-hashed-over, etc. Its in the archives. Quick summary for latecomers: Having a gun aboard will be quite a hassle at check-in in many countries you visit. Not declaring it can get you arrested and your boat confiscated, along with lengthy stays in a third-world prison. If you declare, many places will sieze your weapon and hold it for you until you are ready to check out, and it may disappear during the holding process. In any case it will mean that you have to come back to the check-in city before departing, and that may be quite an inconvenience depending on your plans. As far as the Yemen incident in recent threads, I don't think that your "beer can" flamethrower would have been much help. Also, the cruiser involved was fairly lucky in his engagement of multiple AK-47s vs his shotgun. The question of defensive weapons for yachts is very complicated and the answer is likely to be highly personal and depend on a lot of things (such as where you are going to cruise). YMMV, Don W. Terry Spragg wrote: Isn't it strange, the distance to which paranoia can press one? I choose the pen. If I was a societal engineer, terror would have to be a major tool. If they are not 'after you', you relax, right? To be competitive, you need to be scared. A nervous trigger shoots in many directions. How would you inspire a nation? At least the RCMP has the guts to admit that they can't defend against every madman. Is there a really smart crackpot out there with a plan to kill everyone in revenge for being teased as a nurd, because he was too smart, and not smart enough to hide it? Lordy, it get tiresome pretending to be deaf and stupid. Unlocked cockpit doors are one thing, where are there other weaknesses still left ajar? Oops! don't say it here! The paranoid over reaction could get you branded as a danger to security. Where is the sweet spot for terror / stress / productivity / cost benefit? Who's managing this situation? Is the oil price high enough for all you Texans, yet? I want an electric car. 150 km, 100 km/h, 5 hour recharge is fine. Bring on the nuclear power. Bury the waste where it came from, silicated into glass. Let's get to work on solar shingles. If civilisation dissolves or nukes itself into Einstein's fourth world war, fought with sticks, and future cave men find purple glowing glass attractive jewellery, we deserved it. Only Education gives us any chance at all. Radioactive H2 and H3 can be recycled, seperated out of watery wastes and that's where it comes from, anyway. Let's get over this nuclear bull****. There's far greater danger in gold mines, with cyanide lagoons just waiting for a typhoon, government controlled schools, and dirty DEW line sites to clean up. C'mon! The Japanese electric car Eliica looks like a Citröen, and France depends on nukes. Where do they tip it? Overall, BEST weapon for a sailboat: satellite linked security cameras, or counterfeit warning placards complete with phoney satellite dome, and a flamethrower disguised as a beer can or vent cowl, Zippo in hand. Doubt not, a spray of gasoline in the face and chest from a beer can full of it, accompanied by a deft c'ling, shcict, poof, and buddy is all lit up! First, you offer him a real beer, show that he is on live tv, and his mother might be watching, "Say Hi!", then, you shoot him with his own gun, after you help him into the water to put out the flames. All you need is a laptop with a camera, to jab his brains out with a pen and a line, hook and sinker. Just keep him unparanoid enough to not worry about guns on boats, again. You are far more likely to get swindled by a bank or government. Unless you go looking for trouble. Terry K |
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#6
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Don W wrote in
: we should have paid more attention to the "energy crises" back in 1973 when it first reared its ugly head] \OT There was no crises in '73. It was contrived. Every abandoned service station in SC was overflowing with excess gas/diesel. They just refused to SELL it to us except to parcel it out a little at a time. A total lie, all of it. My uncle in PA flys light planes. He took pictures of loaded oil tankers offshore of NJ, loaded to the gunwales, long lines of them. All the tanks ashore were full and it just piled up at sea. Once Americans got a taste of the power of big oil, big oil could jack up the prices, a little at a time, and the public just accepted it. We have no choice, just like Europe. What ****es me off is my politicians allow Alaskan oil to go to JAPAN!! |
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#7
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Larry W4CSC wrote:
There was no crises in '73. It was contrived. To some extent I agree. But the political situation driving the economics was quite real. Basically the Arab members of OPEC decided to punish us for supporting Israel... an attitude that has not changed... Once Americans got a taste of the power of big oil, big oil could jack up the prices, a little at a time, and the public just accepted it. We have no choice, just like Europe. Problem with this... for most of the time frame between 1975 and today, gas prices have lagged behind in inflation... until recently, far behind. Look at average wages in 1975... a loaf of bread cost 35c, a new release album $3. What ****es me off is my politicians allow Alaskan oil to go to JAPAN!! Why not? They hold a heck of a lot of our gov't debt, and they pay higher prices for it than you & I. DSK |
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#8
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DSK wrote in
: punish us for supporting Israel... an attitude that has not changed... Oh oh...watch out! When I tell 'em I'd send all the Israeli spies home that run our gummit, I'm branded an antisemite....or is that extraterrestrial? I fergit. You're not supposed to think about the trouble caused by this apartheid country that threatens our very core..... |
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#9
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In article ,
Larry W4CSC wrote: What ****es me off is my politicians allow Alaskan oil to go to JAPAN!! there is NO alaskan OIL that is going to Japan, Larry, and anyone who says that any of the North slope OIl is going to anywhere except the West coast refineries, is just plain WRONG. or uninformed. Best to get your facts straight before spouting NONESENCE...... Bruce in alaska who works those tankers daily on 4125.0Khz -- add a 2 before @ |
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#10
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:38:02 GMT, Don W
wrote: Quick summary for latecomers: Having a gun aboard will be quite a hassle at check-in in many countries you visit. Not declaring it can get you arrested and your boat confiscated, along with lengthy stays in a third-world prison. If you declare, many places will sieze your weapon and hold it for you until you are ready to check out, and it may disappear during the holding process. In any case it will mean that you have to come back to the check-in city before departing, and that may be quite an inconvenience depending on your plans. I fully understand this. That's part of why it's a hard decision, but that decision is determined on the intelligence and local, evolving situations a foreign yachtie is able to gather about parts of the world one wishes to sail but where the government and the governed are perhaps some distance apart...or where the government doesn't much care if yachts are pillaged and foreigners fed to the sharks. As far as the Yemen incident in recent threads, I don't think that your "beer can" flamethrower would have been much help. Also, the cruiser involved was fairly lucky in his engagement of multiple AK-47s vs his shotgun. Very much so. One of the arguments for steel boats that isn't often touched upon. Or kevlar, perhaps G. The question of defensive weapons for yachts is very complicated and the answer is likely to be highly personal and depend on a lot of things (such as where you are going to cruise). Very true. I see nothing with which to argue here. Perhaps the seemingly exotic "suppression" weapons (super-loud sound, tasers, "pain rays") will prove in time to be a better choice than blasting skinny hoodlums with shot. I think, however, the best idea is to dissuade them from ever getting within whatever range some miserable thug possesses. That could mean "you're on Candid Piracy Camera!" and/or travelling in convoy, and/or announcing on Ch. 16 in the local tongue that you will defend your home by all means at your disposal. Could get interesting. Or you could simply never sail near the innumerable ********s of the world where yacht custom is not appreciated. R. |
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