On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:33:59 -0500, Jean Dufour
wrote:

Hi Peter!

I do not disagree with you on the matter that CGs will procees a Pan Pan or
Mayday according to the emergency of the situation if described, but when I
got my operator licence, them calls were clearly described as such:

Mayday: Life threatening emergency.
Pan Pan: Non-life threatening emergency.

I do not believe the boat is the greatest concern to rescue people and CGs.
So I believe asking the question "Is someone's life in danger?". That's the
only thing one should ask himself. Yes: Mayday, Nope: Pan Pan and that's it.

The CPS Maritime Radio Course manual states that a Distress (Mayday)
call can only be sent if the _vessel_ is in grave and imminent danger,
or is aware of another vessel that is in grave and imminent danger -
no mention of people.

However, I have a US book that does include "person" in the above
definition, and I recall seeing something from a Canadian Coast Guard
website that indicated that a person in danger could justify a Mayday.

I always teach that whether a person in danger is a justifies Mayday
or not, it will be handled with the highest priority, regardless of
how the originator of the call started it.


Another good thing is that you can't get shot by a Canadian CG as they don't
carry guns! ;-)

this is true...

Jean
Montreal


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
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On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:43:40 -0800, "Steve" wrote:

Can I get a clear definition of "Pan-Pan", who and when may it be declared.

Less than MayDay and a judgement call on the urgency. Possibly
appropriate in a situation of unknown severity.

I called Pan-Pan a few years ago in the middle of the night on Lake
Ontario after sighting flares. The Coast Guard operator told me I made
the right call with good form, then explained it was the military on
an exercise and that they claimed there was no need for broadcast
notice because "nobody ever sees our flares". We continued cautiously
through the area and never sighted lights or other signs of the origin
of the flares.

Ryk

"Rolf" wrote in message
ups.com...
Some examples may help from my own experience with my 33 ft sailboat..
Once I was in the shipping channel very close to Golden Gate bridge.
Suddenly my ruddeer breaks off and i am without steering. My boat
cannot be steered without the rudder. There is a lot of current and
also some very heavy container and ther large ships. Even though the
boat was not sinking, I felt my life was in imminent grave danger from
the rocks and possible being hit by a big boat which have no room for
maneuver. I called Mayday and the coast guard obviously agreed with my
judgement. They came out and towed me to a small yacht harbor. At this
point the emergency was over and they left after giving my vessel a
safety inspection.

Good call.

If I would have been some other place where there is no shipping
traffic and no rocks, this would have been a call to a towing service,
which is neither Pan, nor an urgency call. Running out of gasoline is
not normally a Mayday ( no people in imminent danger ) nor a Pan, nor
an urgency call. It is simply a telephone call to atowing service to
bring gasoline or tow to a pump. The coast guard will not respond in
this case.

I would dissagreed here. I think a Pan-Pan would be reasonable because
being adrift with no control can quickly deteriate into a dangerous
situation.
One should first attempt to summon help via phone, radio, handwaving, etc
but if that is unsuccessful then declaring a non-lifethreatinging emergency
is reasonable.

In San Francisco Bay we get a lot of securitee calls from the coast
guard, which advises people of floating logs in the water.

Same here on THE bay.




Doug Dotson wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message
...
Can I get a clear definition of "Pan-Pan", who and when may it be
declared.

I have hard the USCG declare "Pan-Pan", followed by a requirement
that all
none "Pan-Pan" traffic on channel 16 traffic be suspended.

True. Pan-Pan (pronounced Pon-Pon) is a non-life threatening
emergency.

Can an individual boat declare "Pan-Pan", say when a crew member is
lost
overboard, etc??

Any vessel can call Pan-Pan. A crew member lost overboard would be a
MAYDAY
however.

I fairly sure I understand when I could send a "May Day" but, to
me, Pan
Pan is something more recent and I must have missed out on earlier
definition..

Thanks

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 00:31:46 -0500, Ryk
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:43:40 -0800, "Steve" wrote:

Can I get a clear definition of "Pan-Pan", who and when may it be declared.

Less than MayDay and a judgement call on the urgency. Possibly
appropriate in a situation of unknown severity.

I called Pan-Pan a few years ago in the middle of the night on Lake
Ontario after sighting flares. The Coast Guard operator told me I made
the right call with good form, then explained it was the military on
an exercise and that they claimed there was no need for broadcast
notice because "nobody ever sees our flares". We continued cautiously
through the area and never sighted lights or other signs of the origin
of the flares.


This is a good point because it illustrates how "Pan-Pan" alerts
others to your apprehension of danger, rather than just your OWN
danger. Sighting flares at night in such a spot (usually sparsely
travelled out of the ship lanes) leads to a reasonable assumption that
someone was potentially in a Mayday situation.

I am glad the Coast Guard was able to provide a reasonable answer that
put the matter to rest. Did you provide a GPS lat/lon or just a
general DR position, because I can see a situation where a boat could
sink within a short distance of a military exercise without
necessarily being seen. Ironic, but they are separate situations that
might be proximate.

R.

"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
Can I get a clear definition of "Pan-Pan", who and when may it be
declared.

I have hard the USCG declare "Pan-Pan", followed by a requirement that all
none "Pan-Pan" traffic on channel 16 traffic be suspended.

True. Pan-Pan (pronounced Pon-Pon) is a non-life threatening emergency.

Can an individual boat declare "Pan-Pan", say when a crew member is lost
overboard, etc??

Any vessel can call Pan-Pan. A crew member lost overboard would be a MAYDAY
however.

From a UK perspective, I've been told that MOB on a well-crewed race
yacht involving say, a foredeck monkey, would be a Pan-Pan, but a MOB
where the remaining crew are 75-yo grandfather on the helm, and an 12-yo
child down below would be a Mayday.

I assume we all agree that SAR prefer to downgrade rather than upgrade
when it's too late.

ISTR that (in the EU at least), 'Pan-Pan Medico'[0] has been depricated.

rgds, Alan
[0] i.e STFU, I want to speak to a doctor 'cos I'm not sure that it's
'grave and iminent'
--
99 Ducati 748BP, 95 Ducati 600SS, 81 Guzzi Monza, 74 MV Agusta 350
"Ride to Work, Work to Ride" SI# 7.067 DoD#1930 PGP Key 0xBDED56C5

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:37:08 -0500, rhys wrote:

I am glad the Coast Guard was able to provide a reasonable answer that
put the matter to rest. Did you provide a GPS lat/lon or just a
general DR position,

Full precision position data and description of the situation in my
original broadcast, just as they taught me in class. I was rather
surprised and pleased that I managed to get it right. We confirmed on
further exchange that yes, we were about X miles due south of Y by our
reckoning just to be sure I wasn't reading the data points wrong.
(decimal vs DDD:MM:SS?)

because I can see a situation where a boat could
sink within a short distance of a military exercise without
necessarily being seen. Ironic, but they are separate situations that
might be proximate.

I suspect they saw us, even though we weren't showing anything more
than nav lights, and that's why we didn't see them ;-)

Ryk

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:37:33 -0800, Peter Bennett
wrote:
///

Although "Mayday" officially indicates the _vessel_ is in grave and
imminent danger, you are unlikely to be shot if you use it for man
overboard or serious medical emergencies.
///

There is something about this note on Mayday that doesn't seem quite
right to me. Mayday is (in my view) associated with imminent
danger to life. A ship, a sail boat, or an airplane may be lost, but
if life is not in question, the degree of attention is not the
highest, as I see it.

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK