Assuming I can get a slip (depth is probably the limiter) when we splash, so that we can sit and stabilize for a couple of weeks, this is what I expect to do in the meantime:

Uncouple the shaft and move it back from the tranny (an inch or so).

Center the shaft by hanging, verifying ease of turning (I replaced the cutlass, and the shaft, if it’s centered in the log, should be centered in the cutlass).

Keep the shaft hung, and mount the new packing gland. Before tightening the clamps, verify clearance on all sides of the bronze, and adjust to fit if not. Spin on the packing nut (already packed and somewhat compressed, done while we had the shaft out).

Free up the motor mounts in all directions, which may involve hanging the engine and dismounting the parts attached to the engine. The stems of the tangs would want to move freely in the sleeves (in-out and rotation), and the nuts to the mounts spin freely. MAYBE the bolts holding the mounts to the brackets, too. That SHOULD allow a minimum of effort (still expected to be a lot) to move the engine from side to side at both front and rear, and the nuts on the mounts to allow height twiddles. I'll probably try to do them one at a time.


Once splashed, tighten the gland to the degree it just stops leaking. A couple of weeks later, align the engine to the coupling, loosen the gland to allow some drips, and run in place for a bit to allow the packing to seat, before final (well, initial, really, as it will continue to wear in a bit, I expect) tighten/lock.

Am I missing anything?

If I CAN’T get a slip, do all the above, but mount and align the engine, but then verify/realign as needed a couple of weeks later?

Thanks again for your interest and commentary. Pretty far out (of center), eh?

L8R

Skip

On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 05:44:58 -0700 (PDT), Flying Pig
wrote:

Assuming I can get a slip (depth is probably the limiter) when we splash, so that we can sit and stabilize for a couple of weeks, this is what I expect to do in the meantime:

Uncouple the shaft and move it back from the tranny (an inch or so).

Center the shaft by hanging, verifying ease of turning (I replaced the cutlass, and the shaft, if it’s centered in the log, should be centered in the cutlass).

Keep the shaft hung, and mount the new packing gland. Before tightening the clamps, verify clearance on all sides of the bronze, and adjust to fit if not. Spin on the packing nut (already packed and somewhat compressed, done while we had the shaft out).

Free up the motor mounts in all directions, which may involve hanging the engine and dismounting the parts attached to the engine. The stems of the tangs would want to move freely in the sleeves (in-out and rotation), and the nuts to the mounts spin freely. MAYBE the bolts holding the mounts to the brackets, too. That SHOULD allow a minimum of effort (still expected to be a lot) to move the engine from side to side at both front and rear, and the nuts on the mounts to allow height twiddles. I'll probably try to do them one at a time.

It depends on your engine mounts and the mounting brackets but on my
last boat I was able to fabricate brackets that attached to the engine
with a "jacking" bolt that bore against the engine mount. To move the
engine vertically I could, of course, use the nuts on the engine mount
stem and the home made brackets allowed me to move the engine
laterally by winding a bolt in. Much, much easier then the long pry
bar method.
Admittedly this scheme will not work on all installations but when it
does it makes engine alignment a doodle.



Once splashed, tighten the gland to the degree it just stops leaking. A couple of weeks later, align the engine to the coupling, loosen the gland to allow some drips, and run in place for a bit to allow the packing to seat, before final (well, initial, really, as it will continue to wear in a bit, I expect) tighten/lock.

Am I missing anything?

If I CAN’T get a slip, do all the above, but mount and align the engine, but then verify/realign as needed a couple of weeks later?

Thanks again for your interest and commentary. Pretty far out (of center), eh?

L8R

Skip

I've aligned the engine in a 40 ft. sailboat while ashore and when
checked a couple of weeks after launching I could detect no change in
alignment. You may find the same.

On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:09:20 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

I've aligned the engine in a 40 ft. sailboat while ashore and when
checked a couple of weeks after launching I could detect no change in
alignment. You may find the same.

===

The key variable is rig tension, especially the back stay.

Yesterday, I uncoupled the shaft and went to work on the motor mounts.
Some very small progress, at the expense of skinned knuckles, puncture
wounds, and a very sore shoulder, in a contorted position with only crescent
wrenches, since I don't own ones large enough to fit on the nuts on the
motor mounts.

The good news is that I didn't expect to make that much progress, the
forward ones can slide left-right on their brackets (vs the rears, which
have pins which have to slide in tubes, and are probably frozen).

With the proper tool(s) I think I can manage the nuts on the engine mount
studs; the only real question is whether the sliders in the rear will
require removal in order to be moved. The ones in the front slide (or have
adequate room to do so, I believe, being nominally centered) on slots in the
brackets. For whatever reason, perhaps not seen adequately in the pix,
there is a major frame made on the engine for the rear pin/sliders-in-tubes,
in order to extend the mount further out. That means that these are mounted
over the stringers, and so the left-right motion has to come from the pins.


I expect that in a few days, I'll have it centered and dry-mounted. With
any luck, like my friend Bruce, when it's been in the water for a month or
so, it will still be aligned. I'm much more encouraged at the end of the
day than I was at the beginning..

L8R

Skip

I made great progress in the alignment saga today. Lots more contortions, but the exertion part was alleviated by the borrowing of a couple of very serious wrenches, allowing me better leverage. Once I had stuff moving, I could use my smaller wrenches to good effect, having the ability to move them further because they were lots shorter.

I got all of the sliding stuff loose today, something I'd
been pretty concerned about. However, as most things I do will defer to brute force, and I'm a brute, sometimes, I got things started.

At the moment we're nearly finished with the gross alignment of the shaft in the exit tube. Once we have that set, we'll go about making the face of the coupler match up perfectly with the flange on the transmission.

As everything is entirely loose at the moment, I have little doubt that the hard part is yet come, as every loose part has to be retightened, and every time I do that, the alignment will change, slightly. However, I'll keep at it (I'm known for patience), and as long as I've got it all loose, won't settle for better than the .004 it was before (albeit, WAAAY off straight astern).

WooHoo!

L8R, y'all

Skip

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
I made great progress in the alignment saga today. Lots more contortions, but
the exertion part was alleviated by the borrowing of a couple of very serious
wrenches, allowing me better leverage. Once I had stuff moving, I could use my
smaller wrenches to good effect, having the ability to move them further
because they were lots shorter.

I got all of the sliding stuff loose today, something I'd
been pretty concerned about. However, as most things I do will defer to brute
force, and I'm a brute, sometimes, I got things started.

At the moment we're nearly finished with the gross alignment of the shaft in
the exit tube. Once we have that set, we'll go about making the face of the
coupler match up perfectly with the flange on the transmission.

As everything is entirely loose at the moment, I have little doubt that the
hard part is yet come, as every loose part has to be retightened, and every
time I do that, the alignment will change, slightly. However, I'll keep at it
(I'm known for patience), and as long as I've got it all loose, won't settle
for better than the .004 it was before (albeit, WAAAY off straight astern).

WooHoo!


================[reply]=======================


Poor Skippy!!! It sounds like your amateur attempt at alignment is doomed to
failure.

Why?

Because there is a lot more to alignment that just centering the shaft in the
log. A perfectly centered shaft can fail to be perfectly aligned with the
transmission output shaft/flange.

IOW, if the two flanges that bolt together are not perfectly parallel both top
to bottom and side to side and everywhere else, when the propeller shaft is
centered in the log there will be a terrible vibration set up as the two
flanges will bind and loosen as they rotate. The only way to get them perfect
is by using two dial gauges, one for each flange and as you rotate them with
perhaps an 18th inch of space between them (in neutral) by hand both gauges
must not move more than a blonde hair.

Sounds to me you are doing the job only halfway, Skippy.


Wilbur Hubbard

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
news:504a191a$0$62077

Poor Skippy!!! It sounds like your amateur attempt at alignment is doomed
to failure.

Why?

Because there is a lot more to alignment that just centering the shaft in
the log. A perfectly centered shaft can fail to be perfectly aligned with
the transmission output shaft/flange.

IOW, if the two flanges that bolt together are not perfectly parallel both
top to bottom and side to side and everywhere else, when the propeller
shaft is centered in the log there will be a terrible vibration set up as
the two flanges will bind and loosen as they rotate. The only way to get
them perfect is by using two dial gauges, one for each flange and as you
rotate them with perhaps an 18th inch of space between them (in neutral)
by hand both gauges must not move more than a blonde hair.

Sounds to me you are doing the job only halfway, Skippy.


Wilbur Hubbard


Heh. Reading deficit, eh?

We got the shaft centered. That took care of the alignment with the
cutlass. The shaft turns readily, by hand, from the skinny end outside, the
middle, next to the log, and the transmission, where I've got the coupling
mated with the bolts, but not yet tightened, as we've not yet aligned the
engine.

At this moment I'm about .005 off gap to starboard. That only happened when
I tightened down the last two of the mounts. It previously was about .003
off to bottom I was expecting that (changes as I tighten the various
elements of adjustment), of course. A couple of rounds of fiddling, and it
will be finished.

L8R

Skip

--

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

When a man comes to like a sea life, he is not fit to live on land.
- Dr. Samuel Johnson

On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 11:56:00 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
I made great progress in the alignment saga today. Lots more contortions, but
the exertion part was alleviated by the borrowing of a couple of very serious
wrenches, allowing me better leverage. Once I had stuff moving, I could use my
smaller wrenches to good effect, having the ability to move them further
because they were lots shorter.

I got all of the sliding stuff loose today, something I'd
been pretty concerned about. However, as most things I do will defer to brute
force, and I'm a brute, sometimes, I got things started.

At the moment we're nearly finished with the gross alignment of the shaft in
the exit tube. Once we have that set, we'll go about making the face of the
coupler match up perfectly with the flange on the transmission.

As everything is entirely loose at the moment, I have little doubt that the
hard part is yet come, as every loose part has to be retightened, and every
time I do that, the alignment will change, slightly. However, I'll keep at it
(I'm known for patience), and as long as I've got it all loose, won't settle
for better than the .004 it was before (albeit, WAAAY off straight astern).

WooHoo!


================[reply]=======================


Poor Skippy!!! It sounds like your amateur attempt at alignment is doomed to
failure.

Why?

Because there is a lot more to alignment that just centering the shaft in the
log. A perfectly centered shaft can fail to be perfectly aligned with the
transmission output shaft/flange.

IOW, if the two flanges that bolt together are not perfectly parallel both top
to bottom and side to side and everywhere else, when the propeller shaft is
centered in the log there will be a terrible vibration set up as the two
flanges will bind and loosen as they rotate. The only way to get them perfect
is by using two dial gauges, one for each flange and as you rotate them with
perhaps an 18th inch of space between them (in neutral) by hand both gauges
must not move more than a blonde hair.

Sounds to me you are doing the job only halfway, Skippy.


Wilbur Hubbard


How in the world would a chap who's entire boating experience involves
a tiny plastic dinghy know anything about aligning an inboard
installed engine and drive line?

Easy.... he read it inna book and without other knowledge he professes
to be an expert. Stupidity knows no bounds, apparently.

Had you read the message, and had you an 8th grade command of English
you would note the paragraph in which the O.P. states "At the moment
we're nearly finished with the gross alignment of the shaft in
the exit tube. Once we have that set, we'll go about making the face
of the coupler match up perfectly with the flange on the
transmission."

But, as the Old Folks said, "stupid does as stupid does", and Willie
provides living proof that they were right.

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
anews.com:

Poor Skippy!!! It sounds like your amateur attempt at alignment is
doomed to failure.

Why?

Because there is a lot more to alignment that just centering the shaft
in the log. A perfectly centered shaft can fail to be perfectly
aligned with the transmission output shaft/flange.

IOW, if the two flanges that bolt together are not perfectly parallel
both top to bottom and side to side and everywhere else, when the
propeller shaft is centered in the log there will be a terrible
vibration set up as the two flanges will bind and loosen as they
rotate. The only way to get them perfect is by using two dial gauges,
one for each flange and as you rotate them with perhaps an 18th inch
of space between them (in neutral) by hand both gauges must not move
more than a blonde hair.

Sounds to me you are doing the job only halfway, Skippy.


Wilbur Hubbard

BullPucky!
Its simple enough to get them dead in line with a feeler gauge between
their faces. Simply rotate the two flanges together while checking the gaps
at four points seperated by 90 degrees. (the measurement points rotate
with the flanges). If they neither tighten or loosen on the gauge finger
through a whole turn the angular alignment is 'dead nuts'.

Of course you must get the prop shaft and transmission output shaft centres
dead in line as well but you certainly dont need two dial gauges.

BTDT including replacing the shaft log which involved fabricating a new GRP
tube for the bronze log tube to fit in and glassing it in place.
--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

Hi, Y'all,

I'm enjoying the arguments :{))

While I was aware, of course, of the intricacies of alignment, I'd not seen the westerbeke manual pages.

In fact, I did just as it suggested. Once I got it aligned, I pulled the bolts and rotated the tranny 1/4 turn and reinserted the bolts. Pulled mightily as I twisted my wrist, and repeated my feeler gauge bits at the entire circumference, rotated 90° per time. Can't get the gauge between any of the faces...

There are actually more than one Bruce (the other being someone I met in the Endeavour group many years ago, who splashed his 43 after 10 years ashore, recently) who've had no movement once back in the water for a time; I'm hopeful I'll have the same results, but am prepared to do battle with the system again as needed.

L8R, y'all - pix to come.

Skip