Today started early - too early, as I couldn't get back to sleep after waking at 3:30AM.

So, I did as I always do after 30 minutes awake - I got up, and read.

Then I headed to the boat, where I resolved the conflict in my WiFi system, thus providing access to the dozen or so folks who have come to rely on my signal.

Then I dove into the engine room again, where, the short story is that I can't get my smallest feeler gauge, 0.003", between any place, at any rotation, on the joint between the coupling and transmission flange on the engine alignment I'd worried so much about.

Before that, I did the gross alignment, making the shaft centered in the exit tube and cutlass bearing, and hand-movable with little effort from outside, in the middle, and at the transmission.

The actual alignment was as expected, lots of cut-and-try, but now all is locked down. I'll let it settle for a couple of days, shake the engine as much as I can and check it again, but I'd bet I'm done, as my crawling all over the engine to get to the mounts, at my 200+ avoirdupois has surely caused it to move and settle nicely.

Reward is burger on the grill, followed by ice cream, before I head back tomorrow for more boat chores in prep for getting back on the high seas.

Great day!

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
news:504a191a$0$62077

Poor Skippy!!! It sounds like your amateur attempt at alignment is doomed
to failure.

Why?

Because there is a lot more to alignment that just centering the shaft in
the log. A perfectly centered shaft can fail to be perfectly aligned with
the transmission output shaft/flange.

IOW, if the two flanges that bolt together are not perfectly parallel both
top to bottom and side to side and everywhere else, when the propeller
shaft is centered in the log there will be a terrible vibration set up as
the two flanges will bind and loosen as they rotate. The only way to get
them perfect is by using two dial gauges, one for each flange and as you
rotate them with perhaps an 18th inch of space between them (in neutral)
by hand both gauges must not move more than a blonde hair.

Sounds to me you are doing the job only halfway, Skippy.


Wilbur Hubbard


Heh. Reading deficit, eh?

We got the shaft centered. That took care of the alignment with the
cutlass. The shaft turns readily, by hand, from the skinny end outside, the
middle, next to the log, and the transmission, where I've got the coupling
mated with the bolts, but not yet tightened, as we've not yet aligned the
engine.

That's what I'm talking about. When you snug up the two flanges (propeller
shaft flange and engine/transmission flange - assuming engine and transmission
are integreal) unless their two flange faces are perfectly alligned snugging
them down together will result is binding and releasing (vibration). Prior to
snugging them down face-to-face you must assure yourself that they are
perfectly parallel both horizontally and vertically. And, keep in mind,
depending upon the flexibility of your old hull, that the relationship may
well change when the boat is back in the water (not that that's EVER going to
happen, LOL!)

It can be rather tricky. Some of the Irwin 43's I helped build working as an
MEP (mechanical, electrical, plumbing) experienced this problem as the hulls
were rather 'flexible' and the alignment was done on the production line. Some
needed to be re-done once splashed.


Wilbur Hubbard

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
Today started early - too early, as I couldn't get back to sleep after waking
at 3:30AM.

So, I did as I always do after 30 minutes awake - I got up, and read.

Then I headed to the boat, where I resolved the conflict in my WiFi system,
thus providing access to the dozen or so folks who have come to rely on my
signal.

Then I dove into the engine room again, where, the short story is that I can't
get my smallest feeler gauge, 0.003", between any place, at any rotation, on
the joint between the coupling and transmission flange on the engine alignment
I'd worried so much about.

Before that, I did the gross alignment, making the shaft centered in the exit
tube and cutlass bearing, and hand-movable with little effort from outside, in
the middle, and at the transmission.

The actual alignment was as expected, lots of cut-and-try, but now all is
locked down. I'll let it settle for a couple of days, shake the engine as much
as I can and check it again, but I'd bet I'm done, as my crawling all over the
engine to get to the mounts, at my 200+ avoirdupois has surely caused it to
move and settle nicely.

Reward is burger on the grill, followed by ice cream, before I head back
tomorrow for more boat chores in prep for getting back on the high seas.


====================[reply]======================


Most likely wasted effort and a premature pat on the back.
Come back and tell us the result once splashed. (That will
probably be in 2013 or 2014 if past performance is an
indication of future trends. LOL!)

It might just be better to leave the final tightening until the
"Pig" is floating again.

And, feeler gauges don't cut it. Best you use two dial gauges
working off the mating faces as I recommended. Once you
have them perfect you can draw the two flanges completely
together.

Read this:

http://www.hellersolutions.com/C350/...llManual10.pdf


Wilbur Hubbard

On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 11:56:00 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
I made great progress in the alignment saga today. Lots more contortions, but
the exertion part was alleviated by the borrowing of a couple of very serious
wrenches, allowing me better leverage. Once I had stuff moving, I could use my
smaller wrenches to good effect, having the ability to move them further
because they were lots shorter.

I got all of the sliding stuff loose today, something I'd
been pretty concerned about. However, as most things I do will defer to brute
force, and I'm a brute, sometimes, I got things started.

At the moment we're nearly finished with the gross alignment of the shaft in
the exit tube. Once we have that set, we'll go about making the face of the
coupler match up perfectly with the flange on the transmission.

As everything is entirely loose at the moment, I have little doubt that the
hard part is yet come, as every loose part has to be retightened, and every
time I do that, the alignment will change, slightly. However, I'll keep at it
(I'm known for patience), and as long as I've got it all loose, won't settle
for better than the .004 it was before (albeit, WAAAY off straight astern).

WooHoo!


================[reply]=======================


Poor Skippy!!! It sounds like your amateur attempt at alignment is doomed to
failure.

Why?

Because there is a lot more to alignment that just centering the shaft in the
log. A perfectly centered shaft can fail to be perfectly aligned with the
transmission output shaft/flange.

IOW, if the two flanges that bolt together are not perfectly parallel both top
to bottom and side to side and everywhere else, when the propeller shaft is
centered in the log there will be a terrible vibration set up as the two
flanges will bind and loosen as they rotate. The only way to get them perfect
is by using two dial gauges, one for each flange and as you rotate them with
perhaps an 18th inch of space between them (in neutral) by hand both gauges
must not move more than a blonde hair.

Sounds to me you are doing the job only halfway, Skippy.


Wilbur Hubbard


How in the world would a chap who's entire boating experience involves
a tiny plastic dinghy know anything about aligning an inboard
installed engine and drive line?

Easy.... he read it inna book and without other knowledge he professes
to be an expert. Stupidity knows no bounds, apparently.

Had you read the message, and had you an 8th grade command of English
you would note the paragraph in which the O.P. states "At the moment
we're nearly finished with the gross alignment of the shaft in
the exit tube. Once we have that set, we'll go about making the face
of the coupler match up perfectly with the flange on the
transmission."

But, as the Old Folks said, "stupid does as stupid does", and Willie
provides living proof that they were right.

On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 17:07:40 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
news:504a191a$0$62077

Poor Skippy!!! It sounds like your amateur attempt at alignment is doomed
to failure.

Why?

Because there is a lot more to alignment that just centering the shaft in
the log. A perfectly centered shaft can fail to be perfectly aligned with
the transmission output shaft/flange.

IOW, if the two flanges that bolt together are not perfectly parallel both
top to bottom and side to side and everywhere else, when the propeller
shaft is centered in the log there will be a terrible vibration set up as
the two flanges will bind and loosen as they rotate. The only way to get
them perfect is by using two dial gauges, one for each flange and as you
rotate them with perhaps an 18th inch of space between them (in neutral)
by hand both gauges must not move more than a blonde hair.

Sounds to me you are doing the job only halfway, Skippy.


Wilbur Hubbard


Heh. Reading deficit, eh?

We got the shaft centered. That took care of the alignment with the
cutlass. The shaft turns readily, by hand, from the skinny end outside, the
middle, next to the log, and the transmission, where I've got the coupling
mated with the bolts, but not yet tightened, as we've not yet aligned the
engine.

That's what I'm talking about. When you snug up the two flanges (propeller
shaft flange and engine/transmission flange - assuming engine and transmission
are integreal) unless their two flange faces are perfectly alligned snugging
them down together will result is binding and releasing (vibration). Prior to
snugging them down face-to-face you must assure yourself that they are
perfectly parallel both horizontally and vertically. And, keep in mind,
depending upon the flexibility of your old hull, that the relationship may
well change when the boat is back in the water (not that that's EVER going to
happen, LOL!)

It can be rather tricky. Some of the Irwin 43's I helped build working as an
MEP (mechanical, electrical, plumbing) experienced this problem as the hulls
were rather 'flexible' and the alignment was done on the production line. Some
needed to be re-done once splashed.


Wilbur Hubbard


Hey STUPID! Read the message before you set out to amaze us with your
knowledge (or lack thereof). The O.P. stated, "... but not yet
tightened, as we've not yet aligned the engine."

Read it again, "WE'VE NOT YET ALIGNED THE ENGINE".

Got it yet? HE HASN'T YET ALIGNED THE ENGINE, you ignorant fool.

Question. Does sweeping the floor and emptying the trash can
constitute "help build"?

Hi, Y'all,

I'm enjoying the arguments :{))

While I was aware, of course, of the intricacies of alignment, I'd not seen the westerbeke manual pages.

In fact, I did just as it suggested. Once I got it aligned, I pulled the bolts and rotated the tranny 1/4 turn and reinserted the bolts. Pulled mightily as I twisted my wrist, and repeated my feeler gauge bits at the entire circumference, rotated 90° per time. Can't get the gauge between any of the faces...

There are actually more than one Bruce (the other being someone I met in the Endeavour group many years ago, who splashed his 43 after 10 years ashore, recently) who've had no movement once back in the water for a time; I'm hopeful I'll have the same results, but am prepared to do battle with the system again as needed.

L8R, y'all - pix to come.

Skip

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
anews.com:

Poor Skippy!!! It sounds like your amateur attempt at alignment is
doomed to failure.

Why?

Because there is a lot more to alignment that just centering the shaft
in the log. A perfectly centered shaft can fail to be perfectly
aligned with the transmission output shaft/flange.

IOW, if the two flanges that bolt together are not perfectly parallel
both top to bottom and side to side and everywhere else, when the
propeller shaft is centered in the log there will be a terrible
vibration set up as the two flanges will bind and loosen as they
rotate. The only way to get them perfect is by using two dial gauges,
one for each flange and as you rotate them with perhaps an 18th inch
of space between them (in neutral) by hand both gauges must not move
more than a blonde hair.

Sounds to me you are doing the job only halfway, Skippy.


Wilbur Hubbard

BullPucky!
Its simple enough to get them dead in line with a feeler gauge between
their faces. Simply rotate the two flanges together while checking the gaps
at four points seperated by 90 degrees. (the measurement points rotate
with the flanges). If they neither tighten or loosen on the gauge finger
through a whole turn the angular alignment is 'dead nuts'.

Of course you must get the prop shaft and transmission output shaft centres
dead in line as well but you certainly dont need two dial gauges.

BTDT including replacing the shaft log which involved fabricating a new GRP
tube for the bronze log tube to fit in and glassing it in place.
--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

Flying Pig wrote in
:

Hi, Y'all,

I'm enjoying the arguments :{))

While I was aware, of course, of the intricacies of alignment, I'd not
seen the westerbeke manual pages.

In fact, I did just as it suggested. Once I got it aligned, I pulled
the bolts and rotated the tranny 1/4 turn and reinserted the bolts.
Pulled mightily as I twisted my wrist, and repeated my feeler gauge
bits at the entire circumference, rotated 90° per time. Can't get the
gauge between any of the faces...

There are actually more than one Bruce (the other being someone I met
in the Endeavour group many years ago, who splashed his 43 after 10
years ashore, recently) who've had no movement once back in the water
for a time; I'm hopeful I'll have the same results, but am prepared to
do battle with the system again as needed.

L8R, y'all - pix to come.

Skip


Not good. You want enough clearance to get a feeler gauge in there, then
rotate the two halves of the coupling TOGETHER while you check the
clearance remains the same (at 4 positions round the coupling 90 deg
apart). Twisting one half of the coupling 90 degrees only proves that
the flanges are reasonably flat and square to the shafts. As you had
the flanges jammed together, the shaft may be under enough compression
load to bend it slightly to conform to the gearbox flange, hiding any
misalignment.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 03:25:53 -0700 (PDT), Flying Pig
wrote:

Hi, Y'all,

I'm enjoying the arguments :{))

While I was aware, of course, of the intricacies of alignment, I'd not seen the westerbeke manual pages.

In fact, I did just as it suggested. Once I got it aligned, I pulled the bolts and rotated the tranny 1/4 turn and reinserted the bolts. Pulled mightily as I twisted my wrist, and repeated my feeler gauge bits at the entire circumference, rotated 90° per time. Can't get the gauge between any of the faces...

There are actually more than one Bruce (the other being someone I met in the Endeavour group many years ago, who splashed his 43 after 10 years ashore, recently) who've had no movement once back in the water for a time; I'm hopeful I'll have the same results, but am prepared to do battle with the system again as needed.

L8R, y'all - pix to come.

Skip


I am assuming that you weren't trying to insert the feeler gage after
you had tightened the bolts :-)

On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 09:41:43 -0400, WaIIy wrote:

I think he put the feeler gauge in and then tightened the bolts.

===

As others have pointed out, that is not the right way to do it.
Tightening the bolts on the coupling will correct minor misalignment
by stressing the engine mounts but that is not what you want.