Ok, the big argument is this...

Does partial unrolling of a roller furling head sail cause damage to the sail?
(in terms of shape and stretch)

Yea or Nay?

"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Ok, the big argument is this...

Does partial unrolling of a roller furling head sail cause damage to the
sail?
(in terms of shape and stretch)

Yea or Nay?


You won't get the best sail shape, but I've never heard any credible
evidence to suggest it actually damages a sail. I partially furl mine fairly
often, and as far as I can tell, the sail is doing fine. It was used when I
got it, although it had been sitting in a bag for a number of years. I had
it modified to fit the new furler. That happened 3 years agin. It's got a
very high foot, so it doesn't lose that much when partially furled.

For the fairly regular high wind speeds here, I almost always start with the
main reefed to #1, then if that's not enough, I dial back the jib about 20%.
Very rarely, I've gone to the second reef points on the main.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Wed, 20 May 2009 01:30:11 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Ok, the big argument is this...

Does partial unrolling of a roller furling head sail cause damage to the sail?
(in terms of shape and stretch)

Yea or Nay?


I have foam strips in my jibs which seems to help take some of the
belly out of the sail when partially rolled but IMHO the sail shape
does deteriorate as the sail is rolled up.

However. I also think that for cruising a roller is the only sensible
solution as it allows handling the foresail by one's self. And, yes it
is possible to change head sails alone but it can get somewhat hectic,
particularly in variable winds or with a squall roaring up behind.

Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Wed, 20 May 2009 01:30:11 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Ok, the big argument is this...

Does partial unrolling of a roller furling head sail cause damage to the sail?
(in terms of shape and stretch)

Yea or Nay?

Nay.

When partially furled, the forces on the sail are much lower than when
let out.

Some sailmakers make head sails specifically designed to have a better
shape when partially rolled up, but it haslittle or nothing to do with
any potential for actual damage.

Kappa Sails in Westbrook, CT makes a really nice 135% that rolls to a
100%, and maintains good shape. It is made with two different weight
sailcloths, in addition to the careful design.

Most "common" headsails, when partialled furled, have a very fat
leading edge that kills air flow, and a poorly shaped exposed area.
They still provide "some" power, but not as much as you might like.

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 20 May 2009 01:30:11 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Ok, the big argument is this...

Does partial unrolling of a roller furling head sail cause damage to the
sail?
(in terms of shape and stretch)

Yea or Nay?


I have foam strips in my jibs which seems to help take some of the
belly out of the sail when partially rolled but IMHO the sail shape
does deteriorate as the sail is rolled up.

However. I also think that for cruising a roller is the only sensible
solution as it allows handling the foresail by one's self. And, yes it
is possible to change head sails alone but it can get somewhat hectic,
particularly in variable winds or with a squall roaring up behind.

I agree with all that has been said but would add that although sails of
modern materials stretch very little, if at all, I would try and avoid
using a new sail partly furled if I possibly could.

Edgar wrote:
"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 20 May 2009 01:30:11 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Ok, the big argument is this...

Does partial unrolling of a roller furling head sail cause damage to the
sail?
(in terms of shape and stretch)

Yea or Nay?

I have foam strips in my jibs which seems to help take some of the
belly out of the sail when partially rolled but IMHO the sail shape
does deteriorate as the sail is rolled up.

However. I also think that for cruising a roller is the only sensible
solution as it allows handling the foresail by one's self. And, yes it
is possible to change head sails alone but it can get somewhat hectic,
particularly in variable winds or with a squall roaring up behind.

I agree with all that has been said but would add that although sails of
modern materials stretch very little, if at all, I would try and avoid
using a new sail partly furled if I possibly could.



My ASA friends (both instructors) say it's ok.
But they have a nicely bellied jib on C27s!

They suggested getting a 125% with a high cut clew.
That way the jib won't backwind the main when hard on the wind, and
the thing will unroll more proportionally than a low cut deck sweeper.

I have a nice Asym spinnaker for running and reaching, so that might work.


The sailmakers, however...

As for your question about partially furling headsails damaging the shape,
I believe the answer to be yes. In the 13 years I have been here at Mariner, I
have found that I can definitely tell when a sail has been partially furled. I
can tell due to a ripple that develops at the load points along the foot and
leech. Definite change and damage.

That was from Mariner. the others say pretty much the same thing...


Richard

wrote:
On Wed, 20 May 2009 01:30:11 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Ok, the big argument is this...

Does partial unrolling of a roller furling head sail cause damage to the sail?
(in terms of shape and stretch)

Yea or Nay?

Nay.

When partially furled, the forces on the sail are much lower than when
let out.

Some sailmakers make head sails specifically designed to have a better
shape when partially rolled up, but it haslittle or nothing to do with
any potential for actual damage.

Kappa Sails in Westbrook, CT makes a really nice 135% that rolls to a
100%, and maintains good shape. It is made with two different weight
sailcloths, in addition to the careful design.

Most "common" headsails, when partialled furled, have a very fat
leading edge that kills air flow, and a poorly shaped exposed area.
They still provide "some" power, but not as much as you might like.


Yeah. That's what might be referred to as a real roller reefer.

"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Edgar wrote:
"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 20 May 2009 01:30:11 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Ok, the big argument is this...

Does partial unrolling of a roller furling head sail cause damage to
the sail?
(in terms of shape and stretch)

Yea or Nay?

I have foam strips in my jibs which seems to help take some of the
belly out of the sail when partially rolled but IMHO the sail shape
does deteriorate as the sail is rolled up.

However. I also think that for cruising a roller is the only sensible
solution as it allows handling the foresail by one's self. And, yes it
is possible to change head sails alone but it can get somewhat hectic,
particularly in variable winds or with a squall roaring up behind.

I agree with all that has been said but would add that although sails of
modern materials stretch very little, if at all, I would try and avoid
using a new sail partly furled if I possibly could.

My ASA friends (both instructors) say it's ok.
But they have a nicely bellied jib on C27s!

They suggested getting a 125% with a high cut clew.
That way the jib won't backwind the main when hard on the wind, and
the thing will unroll more proportionally than a low cut deck sweeper.

I have a nice Asym spinnaker for running and reaching, so that might work.


The sailmakers, however...

As for your question about partially furling headsails damaging the
shape, I believe the answer to be yes. In the 13 years I have been here
at Mariner, I have found that I can definitely tell when a sail has been
partially furled. I can tell due to a ripple that develops at the load
points along the foot and leech. Definite change and damage.

That was from Mariner. the others say pretty much the same thing...


Richard


Last year, I got it in my head that I needed a good downwind jib. (Well, I
do, given my jib has such a high foot/clew.) So, I bought a used drifter. I
have yet to put the sail on and use it. I think I'm going to have to wait
until winter now.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Wed, 20 May 2009 01:30:11 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Ok, the big argument is this...

Does partial unrolling of a roller furling head sail cause damage to the
sail?
(in terms of shape and stretch)

Yea or Nay?

Nay. When partially furled, the forces on the sail are much lower than
when
let out.

Some sailmakers make head sails specifically designed to have a better
shape when partially rolled up, but it haslittle or nothing to do with
any potential for actual damage.

Kappa Sails in Westbrook, CT makes a really nice 135% that rolls to a
100%, and maintains good shape. It is made with two different weight
sailcloths, in addition to the careful design.

Most "common" headsails, when partialled furled, have a very fat
leading edge that kills air flow, and a poorly shaped exposed area.
They still provide "some" power, but not as much as you might like.


Yeah. That's what might be referred to as a real roller reefer.

The foresail I use all the time is a 130% Mack sail which has padding built
in along the luff which makes it roll very smoothly when partially reefed.
My hobby room contains a load of Mylar racing sails which I never use since
I got racing out of my system while I was still dinghy sailing. They all fit
the grooves in my furling gear but I bet they would not like to be used
partially furled.