"Bruce" wrote in message
...
I think that if you were "brooming" cable for the Stalok or Norseman
fittings you were doing something wrong. At least if you were brooming
them the same as you do with spelter sockets. With the spelter sockets
you broom out the wire to as close as separate wires as possible while
both the stalok and norseman instructions tell you to separate the
cable into the separate twisted strands. the center strand fits in the
center of the wedge and the outer strands lay down the outside. It is
really a trivial task.

Cheers,

Bruce

It was such a long time ago when I last did this that I cannot remember the
exact type of the terminal in question but I seem to recall that the
individual wires had to have an inward bend put onto their ends to follow,
or to encourage them to follow, a corresponding curve on the end of the
insert when the whole terminal was tightened up. I remember thinking that
this was such a complicated procedure that the chances of getting it wrong
were too high for comfort.

On Feb 12, 4:57 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:26:54 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll



wrote:

Your neighbor's roof wasn't immersed in salt water very often either.
I doubt very much if galvanized wire will make a satisfactory anchor
rode as I can't see how you can wash all the salt out of the stands
so it will be rusting quietly away while on the drum.

Casady

Cheers,

It makes a fine rode.
jiminy what do folks think work boats carry? we dont have ss anchor's
or rodes. the cost is prohibitive and the life span is not as good. SS
does not like to work. the only advantage SS has over good galv is
that it is not supposed to rust Ever (if you get the wrong formulation
it sure will). that still does not off set the cost diffrance.

SS is mostly Cash flash there are other things that work as well or
better and are cheaper to boot.

I must say that I have never seen a work boat with a cable anchor rode
so I can't comment other then the "well, it seems likely" argument
that is so frequently totally incorrect. I have seen mooring lines,
normally used on larger ships, that are galvanized but aren't intended
to be dunked in the ocean on a daily basis.

Cheers,

Bruce

Bruce how many would you like to see? not being a smart ass but i do
realize that some proof is in the pudding. I have not ever seen a
working vessel below 300 ton that did not have cable backed chain. I
have no idea of how they do it in the east but here you got cable on
the drum with maybe 5 shots of chain. what someone said about depth
here is almost correct. not quite so deep but still much deeper that
above the chain not as deep as south east alaska. I think the
diffrence most times is that when we drop the hook in the open bays
its because its blowing so we put out lots of scope.
dunno most of my experiance is from working boats. they are not fast
enough to make port from the tuna grounds before the bar closes.

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:44:06 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:39:58 +0000, IanM
wrote:

Richard Casady wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:35:15 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

The first problem comes when you attempt to locate proper heavy duty
thimbles for the eyes. Damned hard to find. Next comes splicing the
eyes in the cables. Again, if you can do it yourself and have the
tools then go for it but if you are paying rigger's rates then get
your wallet ready.

Don't they have fittings that avoid the eyesplice, for stainless, but
not for galvanized? That would do it even if stainless is six times as
costly. I don't know about those compression sleeves. I remember in
the fifties when Lands End sold nothing but sailboat stuff. They had
sleeves and a tool that looked like a boltcutter.

No, I was referring specifically to thimbles used in eye splices as I
assumed that if one were complaining about costs one wouldn't want to
buy swedge fittings as a non-stainless swedge fitting any where that
it gets salt water on it probably has a shorter life then a properly
made and served eye splice.


Poured socket terminals were the 'gold standard' for wire rope terminals
for the greater part of the last century. The end of the rope is
splayed in a controlled fashion and spelter (usually zinc alloy) is
poured in to the terminal to form a solid wedge retaining the rope.
Used to be the Navy standard for all wire terminals used for safety
critical lifting. Works for galvanized and bare steel wire but I believe
its not so good for stainless as the spelter doesn't wet the strands
properly.
Check out chapter 10 of:
http://www.fastlift.co.za/pdf/CASAR%20-%20Wire%20rope%20end%20connections.pdf

Called "spelter sockets". There is a boat builder in Phuket that has
proper bronze fittings cast and uses them from time to time. They used
to be common around cranes but have largely been replaced by wedge
sockets as the poured sockets take a bit of skill to make. Or perhaps
more accurately, a bit of attention paid to the proper technique.

for instructions. It should be noted that unlike most other terminal
systems, it does not de-rate the wire strength from 100%


I think you'll find that sta-lock type of fitting will test stronger
then the cable. One test was 107% of rated cable strength.

The tools and materials to do it are affordable and can be carried on
board nearly any boat, the terminals are generally reusable and the
galvanic compatibility is good, but you do need to be ashore or in a
very sheltered location to work with molten spelter so some screw down
compression fittings of any of the types suitable for galvanised wire
would need to be stocked for any repairs under way.

The spelter is just zinc in most cases.

You can get 3/8 galv. for less than a buck a foot, breaking strength
14 000 lbs. My original reference was to anchor rode, and you can bet
the ranch it wasn't stainless. You can brush grease over a wire filled
winch drum and not get it on the rest of the boat.

People who aren't useing it say it rusts. How come the zinc does not
afford anodic protection to the steel. I drive by the neighors steel
roof that has a third of the zinc gone, and no rust. No salt of
course. My dad built the Iowa schooner [only been the one] and used
galvanized. Whatever the local hardware store had.

Your neighbor's roof wasn't immersed in salt water very often either.
I doubt very much if galvanized wire will make a satisfactory anchor
rode as I can't see how you can wash all the salt out of the stands
so it will be rusting quietly away while on the drum.

The galvanized will have more of a rust problem than the plain steel
the tugs use, you say. I don't think so.

Casady

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:50:35 -0600, Brian Whatcott
wrote:

Two meter troll wrote:
...
It makes a fine rode.
jiminy what do folks think work boats carry? we don't have ss anchors
or rodes. the cost is prohibitive and the life span is not as good. SS
does not like to work. the only advantage SS has over good galv is
that it is not supposed to rust Ever (if you get the wrong formulation
it sure will). that still does not off set the cost difference.


A useful little test for the stainless believers goes like this.

Buy a bright shiny stainless bowl - like a surgical bowl or whatever.

Put a cup of salt water in it, and leave it outside.
Make sure it doesn't dry up. Check how long it takes to get a
pinhole in the bowl. Try again with tap water - you should get the
same result.....

In that case, oxygen in the air can get at it to maintain the thin
layer of chromium oxide that protects it in the manner aluminum oxide
protecs aluminum. In the presence of salt and absence of oxygen, the
chloride attacks it. It can also rust. I had a stainless bowl develop
a pinhole in ordinary kitchen use. In the case of the so called
stainless hose clamps, check them with a magnet at the store. The
*******s often use plain carbon steel for the worm.

Casady

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:26:40 +0100, "Edgar"
wrote:

There are various grades of 'stainless' steel. The lower grades will be
attracted by a magnet and will be likely to behave as you describe.
The better grades are totally non-magnetic and are the only kind that should
be on boat fittings.
Take a small powerful magnet when you go to buy marine fittings as there is
a lot of low-grade stuff on offer even if it is being sold for marine use.

My refrigerator is all nonmagnetic stainless, cost three grand more
than one with paint.

Casady