Hello again; women haters, know it alls, never owned but
full of advice, and then there are the nuts/bolts/screws.. all loose..

And of course,, The Hubbard ... question; how many Hubbards are there?

This is your assignment ::

You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976..

The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment ..

You have xxxx to spend.. think?? at least $15,000 ..

What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. etc ??

My list so far :: and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book ..

Replace the standing and running rigging .. add two self tailing winches ..
upgrade the
anchor and anchor equipment .. sails .. furling for jib.. [ maybe, the
book says the
furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib will
sail the boat better ]

What stuff would you EXPERTS get ..

The windvane steerer? Or electric stuff ?

what about engine upgrades ?/ batteries? solar/wind power ?

My advice is to spend just half of your budget on the initial purchase
although that's based on the market when I bought my boat in 2005. With
things as depressed as they are now, the numbers may have changed. Still,
you might find it useful to see what I went through with a boat of the same
purchase price you mention that had a good survey and has turned out to be a
great, solid, boat.

http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/BoatIndex.htm

--
Roger Long

Oops. Wrong link. Start he

http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/Strider.htm

--
Roger Long

"Janet O'Leary" wrote in message
...
Hello again; women haters, know it alls, never owned but
full of advice, and then there are the nuts/bolts/screws.. all loose..

And of course,, The Hubbard ... question; how many Hubbards are there?

This is your assignment ::

You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976..

The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment ..

You have xxxx to spend.. think?? at least $15,000 ..

What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. etc ??

My list so far :: and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book
..

Replace the standing and running rigging .. add two self tailing winches
.. upgrade the
anchor and anchor equipment .. sails .. furling for jib.. [ maybe, the
book says the
furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib
will sail the boat better ]

What stuff would you EXPERTS get ..

The windvane steerer? Or electric stuff ?

what about engine upgrades ?/ batteries? solar/wind power ?






Ha! Liked the start of your post! Pretty accurate.
From what I understand the hypothetical situation to be is "Sailor-person"
has a 1973 28' Sabre AND 15 "boat bucks"?
What I think "Sailor-person" should do is, through talking to some decent
middle of the road type (meaning somewhere between the crested blazer
wearing jerks and the bar clinging drunks) sailors, is find a reputable
surveyor and spend about 1/2 a boat buck for a solid evaluation of that
vessel and it's systems. Once the ""Sailor-person" has the list of good and
bad things, that person should evalute the list and prioritize things to fix
and budget the repairs. The surveyor will probably help with a quick eval of
the worst or unsafe items needing immediate attention.
Could be I would vote for changing the rigging because mine needs new
rigging and not worrying about the engine because my engine has no problems.
Having never seen the boat and knowing nothing about it, my input on what to
fix/replace first is worth just what it would cost. Nada.
I would not blow my boat budget on recommendations from the books author
(there are a lot of furling system owners out there that would argue his
opinion) nor opinions of "screw loose, women hating Hubbards" on an NG.

"Janet O'Leary" wrote in message
...
This is your assignment ::

You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976..

The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment ..

You have xxxx to spend.. think?? at least $15,000 ..

What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. etc ??

My list so far :: and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book
..

Replace the standing and running rigging .. add two self tailing winches
.. upgrade the
anchor and anchor equipment .. sails .. furling for jib.. [ maybe, the
book says the
furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib
will sail the boat better ]

What stuff would you EXPERTS get ..

The windvane steerer? Or electric stuff ?

what about engine upgrades ?/ batteries? solar/wind power ?

The first thing to do is to find out from previous owners what has already
been done to the boat and what sort of usage it has had.
If you are being 'given' the boat you are lucky and cannot expect to say
'Accepted subject to survey' so you will need to check things out yourself.
If you are buying then get the owner to give you a trial sail and check out
as much as possible before you decide to have her surveyed. A survey,
despite what some people say, is money well spent but do not waste money on
an engine or electrical survey as you can check those yourself to see if
major work is needed..
I trust my own judgement on a boat and when I bought my first yacht I did
not have a survey. Had a trial sail and we went to a nice anchorage and the
previous owner said he was going ashore for an hour or so and left me free
to do what I liked aboard the boat to check her out. Not everyone would do
that however.
My present boat I bought in USA without seeing her until she arrived here so
needed a survey, many pictures, and the answers to some specific questions I
asked the surveyor. Got a fine boat, loaded with all sorts of gear and am
most satisfied.

.. Since you are a beginner, (I think, or you would not be asking us those
questions) you should not be replacing stuff on your boat willy-nilly at an
early stage.
The standing rigging, for example, is probably 1x19 SS wire. Check it out,
every inch of it to see if there is any sign of broken wires or rust,
especially where it goes into the fittings. If it seems Ok then, as a
beginner, you are highly unlikely to overstress it in your early days of
sailing the boat so leave it alone for now. Check the tensioning screws and
throw out any that are rusted, bent, or have doubtful looking threads. Make
sure they have locking nuts or otherwise are wired up so thay cannot
unscrew.
Running rigging may be wire or rope or both. Check it over carefully and if
it looks Ok, especially where there may be a rope/wire splice, then use it
until it shows signs of not being Ok.
If you are in USA then check the anchor out very carefully. Many yachtsmen
in USA never seem to anchor and have poor gear.
I threw out the anchor that came with my boat which I imported from USA
because it was cut from flimsy plate. If yours is flimsy galvanised plate,
or made from aluminium, or is held together with nuts and bolts, then throw
it out and get a solid forged one which for your 28' boat needs to be about
25 lbs weight. The rode should be chain or at least have about 12' of chain
then nylon rope. The function of the chain is to maintain a near horizontal
pull onto the anchor so it needs to be heavy 1/2" at least.
Why mess with the sails, assuming they are in fair condition and are those
recommended by the builder? Remember this is a series production boat and
the recommended sails should be quite suitable.
Same comments for the furler. You do not need a smaller jib if you have a
decent furler for reasons just mentioned.
If you are a beginner and are not going to try to single hand the boat I
should get used to sailing it manually before you get any autopilot. Wind
vanes have control lines that take up a lot of space in the cockpit and are
not so good downwind unless the wind is very strong and they are no use at
all in light wind or when motoring. It is mainly the serious offshore people
who use these.
You need a decent battery but the existing one(s) can easily be tested. As
for the engine it should be a diesel inboard and if it starts readily
withoud needing Easy Start sprayed into the manifold it is OK for now
especially if it has 1500 hours or less on the clock, but make sure the oil
in engine and gearbox has been changed at proper intervals and if in doubt
change all oils and filters right away.

You should not have to spend a great deal if the boat checks out Ok on the
above tests. Ideally, though, you should see her out of the water and check
the hull for damage, blisters etc. and if in doubt get an expert to give you
an opinion. If you cannot see anything wrong then there probably is not
anything wrong, but be suspicious of anything that looks as if it has been
recently painted over.
So that is my 2c worth. But first you must find someone who is going to
'give' you a boat.
Good luck!

Ah yes, more fun'n games. This is what the internet is for, isn't it?

"Janet O'Leary" wrote
This is your assignment ::

You have been given a Sabre 28. *Model year 1976..

The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment ..


"Basic equipment" like what? Boats are not like cars in having
"standard equipmet" packages.
If you mean that the boat is more or less as it came from the factory,
then it will need a pretty long list of stuff before it's suitable for
coastal cruising.


You have xxxx to spend.. *think?? * at least $15,000 ..
What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. *etc ??
My list so far :: *and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book

My first suggestion would be to go to a sailing club or marina and
walk the docks, talk to some real sailors.

Replace the standing and running rigging ..

You could probably spend the whole $15k just on that alone. I'd
suggest not replacing the standing rigging unless you have a good
reason to, and that's one of the survey items that will come off the
top of the purchase price. Running rigging does need periodic
replacement, and it's also not a "standard" list either. How you
intend to use the boat, and to some extent your own style of sailing,
will dictate the best choice of which rigging to replace and what to
replace it with.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...-RightLine.htm

Or

skip down to Part 4 "The Right Rope for the Job"
http://www.setsail.com/_storefiles/72.pdf


.....*add two self tailing winches
.. upgrade the
anchor and anchor equipment .. *sails .. *furling for jib.. [ maybe, the
book says the
furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib
will sail the boat better ]

Again, that depends. Furling systems work just fine, people sail
around the world with them without trouble. OTOH there is certainly a
functional range for any given sail & furler.

Generally, people who don't like furlers tend to be curmudgeonly types
who formed their opinions 30+ years ago and have no experience with
modern furlers.

The windvane steerer? *

Unless you're going on long offshore passages, I would not bother with
a windvane.

what about engine upgrades ?/ *batteries? *solar/wind power ?

Electrical systems are a whole 'nother can o' worms.

If you're going to on opinions presented in books, go for a good one.
Get Nigel Calder's 'Cruising Handbook' and/or 'Boatowner's Mechanical
& Electrical Guide' very thorough references with good explanations.

"mmc" wrote:
Ha! Liked the start of your post! Pretty accurate.
From what I understand the hypothetical situation to be is "Sailor-person"
has a 1973 28' Sabre AND 15 "boat bucks"?
What I think "Sailor-person" should do is, through talking to some decent
middle of the road type (meaning somewhere between the crested blazer
wearing jerks and the bar clinging drunks) sailors, is find a reputable
surveyor and spend about 1/2 a boat buck for a solid evaluation of that
vessel and it's systems.

Ah, but this "sailor-person" has (apparently) already rejected that
good advice.

Once the ""Sailor-person" has the list of good and
bad things, that person should evalute the list and prioritize things to fix
and budget the repairs. The surveyor will probably help with a quick eval of
the worst or unsafe items needing immediate attention.
Could be I would vote for changing the rigging because mine needs new
rigging and not worrying about the engine because my engine has no problems.
Having never seen the boat and knowing nothing about it, my input on what to
fix/replace first is worth just what it would cost. Nada.

But you might have some good ideas about what to prioritize, in a
general way.

I would not blow my boat budget on recommendations from the books author
(there are a lot of furling system owners out there that would argue his
opinion) nor opinions of "screw loose, women hating Hubbards" on an NG.

I dunno if Wilbur H really "hates women" as much as he's just
unfamiliar with them and intimidated by them (the real thing, I mean).
And he's probably annoyed that he can't impersonate them more
successfully on the Internet. But hatred doesn't seem like his style.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Janet O'Leary wrote:
Hello again; women haters, know it alls, never owned but
full of advice, and then there are the nuts/bolts/screws.. all loose..



Everything in your post is "it depends". Frex, it's silly to replace
perfectly good rigging just because you have the budget. As to the auto
steering, vanes only keep your course true relative to the wind and they
don't work at all powering. So what are your plans - long distance
cruising by sail in the trades? If so, the vane. If not, the auto pilot.

Ditto ground tackle. There have been no real improvement in, say,
Danforth / CQR (etc) anchors or BBB chain in the past 50 years so why
change those items out if they are in good shape?

As to solar, that's always a nice thing to have but on a 28 footer, your
space may be limited.

Bluntly put, take an inventory of the boat - all stuff and then post the
condition of each sub system if you wish the group's opinion on the most
vital to replace / repair or upgrade.

"Janet O'Leary" wrote in message
...
Hello again; women haters, know it alls, never owned but
full of advice, and then there are the nuts/bolts/screws.. all loose..

And of course,, The Hubbard ... question; how many Hubbards are there?

This is your assignment ::

You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976..

The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment ..

You have xxxx to spend.. think?? at least $15,000 ..

What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. etc ??

My list so far :: and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book
..

Replace the standing and running rigging .. add two self tailing winches
.. upgrade the
anchor and anchor equipment .. sails .. furling for jib.. [ maybe, the
book says the
furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib
will sail the boat better ]

What stuff would you EXPERTS get ..

The windvane steerer? Or electric stuff ?

what about engine upgrades ?/ batteries? solar/wind power ?



Nobody gives Wilbur Hubbard an "assignment." However, if you're smart
you'll listen to the best advice you're going to get in this forum.

Don't buy anything until you NEED to buy something. Rid yourself of your
female shop until you drop mentality.

Here's what you need to do.

1) Give the boat a good cleaning inside and out. Inspect everything real
good while you clean and polish.
2) Move aboard and attempt to stow all the unnecessary crap that most women
feel they can't live without.
3) Put the remaining 90% that won't fit into storage.
4) Stock up on food and make sure your stove has plenty of fuel.
5) Then learn how to sail the boat.
6) Start a list of things that are broken, don't work well enough to suit
your needs, are worn to a dangerous or unserviceable point, etc. Buy all the
Coast Guard required safety things like life jackets, flares etc.
7) Replace things as needed depending upon how and where you cruise and
anchor.
8) If you don't have a nice little rowing dinghy you need to buy one. For
you a Walker Bay 8 would probably be just the ticket. Avoid inflatables as
they tend to get a flat tire at the worst of times and you can't row the
dammed things in anything but a flat calm even when they don't have a flat.
9) Make sure you have no fewer than three serviceable anchors and rodes.
Learn how to use them properly.
10) Buy a new GPS if the boat doesn't already have one. Get the kind that
displays a chart.

In other words don't go out and spend 15 grand just for the sake of spending
fifteen grand. Wait until you learn enough to spend it on things you really
need. And to discover what you really need you must first use the boats as
you intend to use it.

Oh, and don't listen to the others who responded. They can't see the forest
through the trees. Few, if any, are long term, liveaboard cruisers like me.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
My advice is to spend just half of your budget on the initial purchase
although that's based on the market when I bought my boat in 2005. With
things as depressed as they are now, the numbers may have changed. Still,
you might find it useful to see what I went through with a boat of the
same purchase price you mention that had a good survey and has turned out
to be a great, solid, boat.

http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/BoatIndex.htm

--
Roger Long


Pay attention, Roger!

What don't you understand about, "You have been given a Sabre 28. Model
year 1976.."

Wilbur Hubbard

"mmc" wrote in message
g.com...

"Janet O'Leary" wrote in message
...
Hello again; women haters, know it alls, never owned but
full of advice, and then there are the nuts/bolts/screws.. all loose..

And of course,, The Hubbard ... question; how many Hubbards are there?

This is your assignment ::

You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976..

The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment ..

You have xxxx to spend.. think?? at least $15,000 ..

What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. etc ??

My list so far :: and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book
..

Replace the standing and running rigging .. add two self tailing winches
.. upgrade the
anchor and anchor equipment .. sails .. furling for jib.. [ maybe, the
book says the
furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib
will sail the boat better ]

What stuff would you EXPERTS get ..

The windvane steerer? Or electric stuff ?

what about engine upgrades ?/ batteries? solar/wind power ?






Ha! Liked the start of your post! Pretty accurate.
From what I understand the hypothetical situation to be is "Sailor-person"
has a 1973 28' Sabre AND 15 "boat bucks"?

Reading comprehension is not your forté, it would seem: "You have been given
a Sabre 28. Model year 1976.."

What I think "Sailor-person" should do is, through talking to some decent
middle of the road type (meaning somewhere between the crested blazer
wearing jerks and the bar clinging drunks) sailors, is find a reputable
surveyor and spend about 1/2 a boat buck for a solid evaluation of that
vessel and it's systems.

My gawd, here we go again with the surveyor crap. Forget about the surveyor.
She doesn't need one and she doesn't want one. The boat was given to her.
She is asking how to spend 15K on upgrades. Try to keep up.

snipped continued obsession with unnecessary surveyor fetish

Wilbur Hubbard