I need to replace a Groco (sp?) toilet, or I want to, it's old, it
doesn't work.

I'm tempted to go the cheapo route because I'm way over budget already
with all the other crap, um, good stuff I have to buy for the boat ('79
Hunter 33' week/weekender), but because of what I've read here, mostly
from Peggie Hall, I'm reaching up for the Raritan Cricket (because I
don't think the PH II will fit). Is this the right move?

Second question: What's the best way to handle the different floor
mounting bolts, or will they be different?

The boat was a liveaboard and the toilet seems to be plumbed correctly,
from what I can tell having read the archives here.

Thanks!

Stephen

Stephen Trapani wrote:
I need to replace a Groco (sp?) toilet, or I want to, it's old, it
doesn't work.

What do you mean by "doesn't work?" If it's just the pump, that can be
rebuilt for relatively little money.


I'm tempted to go the cheapo route because I'm way over budget already

I tri-ie-ie-ied to wa-a-a-arn you!
My wife and I are at this point just shrugging and saying how it's lucky
we can go without eating so we afford the boat.

with all the other crap, um, good stuff I have to buy for the boat ('79
Hunter 33' week/weekender), but because of what I've read here, mostly
from Peggie Hall, I'm reaching up for the Raritan Cricket (because I
don't think the PH II will fit). Is this the right move?

If the potty itself is broken or just so old & gross you can't possibly
use it, then go ahead (pardon the pun). But if money is an issue (and
when is it not?) I'd consider just trying to fix it.


Second question: What's the best way to handle the different floor
mounting bolts, or will they be different?

How good are your fiberglassing skill? It would be best to fiberglass in
the old holes and drill new ones. If you needed a different floor
contour or dimension you could cut out the old section and build a whole
new one. Problem- everything on a boat is connected to everything else,
and at some point you have to say "stop here." A good friend of mine
ended up with his boat in the side yard as a 5 year project because of a
disinclination to do this... but when he's done, it'll be like a brand
new custom boat.

Hope this helps.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

the biggest issue will be the floor mounting bolt pattern and the hose
connection locations - these 2 can take a lot of time and work. If
it's that old - maybe the floor under has problems and needs to be
redone or at least properly refinished, maybe the hoses have problems
and need to be replaced, ... A friend replaced to Raritan PH heads
with 2 new PHII heads - he was assured by Raritan that the floor bolt
patterns were identical - well - almost - but that 1/2" is a big deal
when the bolts are glassed in from the back and there's no access
except by sawing it all up.

Far easier and cheaper to repair the existing setup. check the outlet
hose to see there's no buildup on the inside - if there is - remove
the hose and beat it on dock to get out most and clean rest with acid.
replace the joker valve and try it from there.



Second question: What's the best way to handle the different floor
mounting bolts, or will they be different?

The boat was a liveaboard and the toilet seems to be plumbed correctly,
from what I can tell having read the archives here.

Thanks!

Stephen

Stephen Trapani wrote:
I need to replace a Groco (sp?) toilet, or I want to, it's old, it
doesn't work.

I'm tempted to go the cheapo route because I'm way over budget already
with all the other crap, um, good stuff I have to buy for the boat ('79
Hunter 33' week/weekender), but because of what I've read here, mostly
from Peggie Hall, I'm reaching up for the Raritan Cricket (because I
don't think the PH II will fit). Is this the right move?

Raritan has discontinued production of the Cricket...the only ones still
for sale are those still left in retailer's inventory. So I'd go with
the PH II or PHC, which is the same pump on a compact base and has a
list price of about $30 less. It's relatively new, so you may not find
it in any of the retail catalogs yet, but they can get it.

Don't guess as to what fits...measure. The dimensions for the PH II are
on the Raritan website at http://www.raritaneng.com If they haven't put
the dimensions for the PHC up yet, call Raritan and ask 'em:
800-352-5630 x 6.

Second question: What's the best way to handle the different floor
mounting bolts, or will they be different?

The mounting bolt pattern for any new toilet, even from the same mfr,
isn't likely to match older models...'cuz mfrs redesign toilets. In most
cases, at least one will match, maybe two. But even in the unlikely
event they all match, fill ALL the holes and redrill to make sure the
new bolts get a good bite...otherwise, you'll have a wobbly toilet.
You'll need to fill those that don't match to keep moisture out. Touch
up any that show with a little paint or a gelcoat patch kit.

The boat was a liveaboard and the toilet seems to be plumbed correctly,
from what I can tell having read the archives here.

If it's below the waterline, you'll needed a vented loop in the intake
between the pump and bowl to keep water from rising in the bowl if the
seacock is left open with the toilet in the "wet mode."

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

DSK wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote:

I need to replace a Groco (sp?) toilet, or I want to, it's old, it
doesn't work.

What do you mean by "doesn't work?" If it's just the pump, that can be
rebuilt for relatively little money.

Not necessarily, Doug. If the pump cylinder is old enough, it can be too
worn and scored for rebuilding to help much, which would require
replacing the pump assembly. If his Groco is old enough to be an HC or
HE (current model is HF) he'd have to buy the "upgrade kit" too, to make
it fit the base. Replacing the whole toilet would cost as much or even
less.

I'm tempted to go the cheapo route because I'm way over budget already

Buying a new toilet every couple of years will cost you more than
spending another $100 just once that'll give you at least 20 years of
reliable service if you only keep it lubricated and rebuild it every 5-6
years.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

santacruz wrote:
A friend replaced to Raritan PH heads
with 2 new PHII heads - he was assured by Raritan that the floor bolt
patterns were identical - well - almost - but that 1/2" is a big deal
when the bolts are glassed in from the back and there's no access
except by sawing it all up.

The bolts never should have been glassed in...but builders as well as
owners do some really stupid things when it comes to sanitation
plumbing. However, the job would have been a lot easier if, instead of
sawing it all up, he'd used a hole saw slightly larger than the bolts to
get the bolts out, then filled the holes with epoxy or other appropriate
fiberglass filler.


check the outlet
hose to see there's no buildup on the inside - if there is - remove
the hose and beat it on dock to get out most and clean rest with acid.

NO need to remove the hose...a few applications of undiluted white
vinegar down the toilet will disssolve a mild buildup...a 12% solution
of muriatic acid and water will dissolve a bad case, in the hose AND the
pump. Wait about 45 minutes, then flush all the acid out with clean water.

replace the joker valve and try it from there.

Joker valves should be replaced annually.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

Regarding my question about replacing my toilet, santacruz wrote:


[...]
replace the joker valve and try it from there.

Okay, you guys have convinced me to at least tear apart the toilet to
see if I can fix it. If there's one thing I'm good at, it's tearing
things apart! ;-)

Where will I find this nasty joker valve?

Stephen

Stephen Trapani wrote:

Okay, you guys have convinced me to at least tear apart the toilet to
see if I can fix it.

Unless you discover rubber seals, o-rings etc that have distintegrated,
there's not much inside a pump that CAN be fixed. Either replacing all
those doodads works, or it doesn't. Btw, what seems to be wrong with
it...what are the symptoms?

If there's one thing I'm good at, it's tearing
things apart! ;-)

Where will I find this nasty joker valve?

Inside the discharge fitting that bolts onto the pump, connecting the
head discharge hose to the toilet. It's just a round rubber cup-shaped
thingy that has a slit in the bottom and "lips" on the outside of
it...and a flange that acts as the gasket between the discharge fitting
and the pump body. It has nothing to do with the operation of the
pump...its sole function is to prevent backflow from an overfull tank or
clogged head discharge hose from flooding the bowl.

And that question make it pretty obvious that the first thing you need
BEFORE you try to take the pump apart is an exploded drawing of the
toilet pump, 'cuz if you don't know what a joker valve is, you won't
know what anything else is or where it goes either. If your toilet is
the current HF model, the drawing is he
http://www.groco.net/parts/data/508.pdf If it's old enough to be an HC
or HE, you'll have to call Groco for one: 410-712-4242.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

Hey, if it's a Groco EB, throw it out. Better yet, sell it on E-Bay! That's
what I did with mine.

--


Keith
__
Opportunities always look bigger going than coming.
"DSK" wrote in message
...
Stephen Trapani wrote:
I need to replace a Groco (sp?) toilet, or I want to, it's old, it
doesn't work.

What do you mean by "doesn't work?" If it's just the pump, that can be
rebuilt for relatively little money.


I'm tempted to go the cheapo route because I'm way over budget already

I tri-ie-ie-ied to wa-a-a-arn you!
My wife and I are at this point just shrugging and saying how it's lucky
we can go without eating so we afford the boat.

with all the other crap, um, good stuff I have to buy for the boat ('79
Hunter 33' week/weekender), but because of what I've read here, mostly
from Peggie Hall, I'm reaching up for the Raritan Cricket (because I
don't think the PH II will fit). Is this the right move?

If the potty itself is broken or just so old & gross you can't possibly
use it, then go ahead (pardon the pun). But if money is an issue (and
when is it not?) I'd consider just trying to fix it.


Second question: What's the best way to handle the different floor
mounting bolts, or will they be different?

How good are your fiberglassing skill? It would be best to fiberglass in
the old holes and drill new ones. If you needed a different floor
contour or dimension you could cut out the old section and build a whole
new one. Problem- everything on a boat is connected to everything else,
and at some point you have to say "stop here." A good friend of mine
ended up with his boat in the side yard as a 5 year project because of a
disinclination to do this... but when he's done, it'll be like a brand
new custom boat.

Hope this helps.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

In article ,
Peggie Hall wrote:

Stephen Trapani wrote:
I need to replace a Groco (sp?) toilet, or I want to, it's old, it
doesn't work.

I'm tempted to go the cheapo route because I'm way over budget already
with all the other crap, um, good stuff I have to buy for the boat ('79
Hunter 33' week/weekender), but because of what I've read here, mostly
from Peggie Hall, I'm reaching up for the Raritan Cricket (because I
don't think the PH II will fit). Is this the right move?

Raritan has discontinued production of the Cricket...the only ones still
for sale are those still left in retailer's inventory.

Darn! I suspected that would happen, it's so different than everything
else.

Guess I should get that replacement kit the next time I find one.....

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/