On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:20:39 -0700, Bill
wrote:

Well, sorry you are so defensive. The reason I care is this is a
builders group, and I am a builder. You came here for help (unless you
are just dreaming and bragging) and I thought I was helping. Screw you
though, I won't make that mistake again. I can't imagine coming to
someone for help, then turning into an ahole when you hear something
you don't want to hear or address, but that's just me.

I posted an update of my build for all the people that might be
interested and I immediately get replies of 'why would you do that,
that wont ever work and it's not a good idea' from people that have
never tried it before. The responses I got from you and Bruce were
very harsh and from people that have not even stated any experience
with this material. In my experience when two people interested in
building something are talking a project it is more constructive than
that. You ask questions if you don't know and make polite
suggestions, you don't say things like it could never be a permanent
solution, if you haven't tried it. You don't jump all over someone
that has been planning or many months after thingkin about it for five
minutes. Sorry if I seem a bit defensive but I came here to share and
post a little something to an otherwise low active group and I get
attacked by several people that think they know everything. Next time
you try to help someone maybe you could be polite about it. That goes
for Bruce even more, just because you never did it doesn't mean it
can't be done.

I rather resent your statement "from people that have
never tried it before" as I've been building boats since I was 12
years old - more then sixty years ago and I have attempted to use
bamboo for a number of purposes ranging from masts to handles for boat
hooks and found that contrary to appearances it was never as effective
as some other common material. I might also mention that I am a
mechanical engineer so I do have some familiarity with strengths of
various materials.

I believe I stated that it is your boat, with the implication that you
could and would do as you wanted.

So, enlighten me. Would you suggest I do the next time someone starts
to explain how they are going to go to something that I have tried and
found to be a totally unsatisfactory solution to the problem? Should I
walk away snickering under my breath, "friggin idjet" or should I try
to tell the guy that it might not work.

You tell me that you are going to buy a piece of bamboo (that if you
do not store very carefully will warp like crazy) split it lengthwise
and carve out the webs; paint it with epoxy; glue it back together and
then sheath it with 200 oz. glass; and that you have been thinking
about this for years -- have you ever given thought to the fact that
if you were to build a foam cored ,glass coated mast, similar to those
used on wind surfers it would be (1) stronger and (2) easier to build?






Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Jul 5, 8:58 pm, Bruce wrote:

So, enlighten me. Would you suggest I do the next time someone starts
to explain how they are going to go to something that I have tried and
found to be a totally unsatisfactory solution to the problem? Should I
walk away snickering under my breath, "friggin idjet" or should I try
to tell the guy that it might not work.
- Show quoted text -

Sorry, had to revisit this question. You do what you did, and if it
does not work out, you move on and help the next guy.

I should have just laid back, sorry to the group, later, going fishing
early morning.

On Jul 5, 5:58 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:20:39 -0700, Bill



wrote:
Well, sorry you are so defensive. The reason I care is this is a
builders group, and I am a builder. You came here for help (unless you
are just dreaming and bragging) and I thought I was helping. Screw you
though, I won't make that mistake again. I can't imagine coming to
someone for help, then turning into an ahole when you hear something
you don't want to hear or address, but that's just me.

I posted an update of my build for all the people that might be
interested and I immediately get replies of 'why would you do that,
that wont ever work and it's not a good idea' from people that have
never tried it before. The responses I got from you and Bruce were
very harsh and from people that have not even stated any experience
with this material. In my experience when two people interested in
building something are talking a project it is more constructive than
that. You ask questions if you don't know and make polite
suggestions, you don't say things like it could never be a permanent
solution, if you haven't tried it. You don't jump all over someone
that has been planning or many months after thingkin about it for five
minutes. Sorry if I seem a bit defensive but I came here to share and
post a little something to an otherwise low active group and I get
attacked by several people that think they know everything. Next time
you try to help someone maybe you could be polite about it. That goes
for Bruce even more, just because you never did it doesn't mean it
can't be done.

I rather resent your statement "from people that have
never tried it before" as I've been building boats since I was 12
years old - more then sixty years ago and I have attempted to use
bamboo for a number of purposes ranging from masts to handles for boat
hooks and found that contrary to appearances it was never as effective
as some other common material. I might also mention that I am a
mechanical engineer so I do have some familiarity with strengths of
various materials.

I believe I stated that it is your boat, with the implication that you
could and would do as you wanted.

So, enlighten me. Would you suggest I do the next time someone starts
to explain how they are going to go to something that I have tried and
found to be a totally unsatisfactory solution to the problem? Should I
walk away snickering under my breath, "friggin idjet" or should I try
to tell the guy that it might not work.

You tell me that you are going to buy a piece of bamboo (that if you
do not store very carefully will warp like crazy) split it lengthwise
and carve out the webs; paint it with epoxy; glue it back together and
then sheath it with 200 oz. glass; and that you have been thinking
about this for years -- have you ever given thought to the fact that
if you were to build a foam cored ,glass coated mast, similar to those
used on wind surfers it would be (1) stronger and (2) easier to build?

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

Bruce, I didn't know you had done it but I got the impression that you
were another usenet idiot that likes to tell people what to do without
having ever tried it since you didn't state that you have done this
before. I didn't mean to offend you but posting to newsgroups in the
past has occasionally brought these people to me and it really bothers
me.I apologize if that is not you or your intention. As for the
thought of a foam cored fiberglass mast, yes I have thought of it
along with aluminum but ultimately I want the boat to be all wood and
rope appearance, as much as possible. I know treating the bamboo is
more work but I am doing a lot of things that are more work just to
get the boat I really want. I am planning on making my own rope
stropped blocks as well. They will be bigger and take a lot more time
but I think it will give a better appearance. The sheaves will be
bronze but little else will be made of anything other than wood, rope
or clear fiberglass. Maybe this will clear things up and bring the
peace back to RBB.

Bill

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:43:30 -0700, Bill
wrote:

On Jul 5, 5:58 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:20:39 -0700, Bill



wrote:
Well, sorry you are so defensive. The reason I care is this is a
builders group, and I am a builder. You came here for help (unless you
are just dreaming and bragging) and I thought I was helping. Screw you
though, I won't make that mistake again. I can't imagine coming to
someone for help, then turning into an ahole when you hear something
you don't want to hear or address, but that's just me.

I posted an update of my build for all the people that might be
interested and I immediately get replies of 'why would you do that,
that wont ever work and it's not a good idea' from people that have
never tried it before. The responses I got from you and Bruce were
very harsh and from people that have not even stated any experience
with this material. In my experience when two people interested in
building something are talking a project it is more constructive than
that. You ask questions if you don't know and make polite
suggestions, you don't say things like it could never be a permanent
solution, if you haven't tried it. You don't jump all over someone
that has been planning or many months after thingkin about it for five
minutes. Sorry if I seem a bit defensive but I came here to share and
post a little something to an otherwise low active group and I get
attacked by several people that think they know everything. Next time
you try to help someone maybe you could be polite about it. That goes
for Bruce even more, just because you never did it doesn't mean it
can't be done.

I rather resent your statement "from people that have
never tried it before" as I've been building boats since I was 12
years old - more then sixty years ago and I have attempted to use
bamboo for a number of purposes ranging from masts to handles for boat
hooks and found that contrary to appearances it was never as effective
as some other common material. I might also mention that I am a
mechanical engineer so I do have some familiarity with strengths of
various materials.

I believe I stated that it is your boat, with the implication that you
could and would do as you wanted.

So, enlighten me. Would you suggest I do the next time someone starts
to explain how they are going to go to something that I have tried and
found to be a totally unsatisfactory solution to the problem? Should I
walk away snickering under my breath, "friggin idjet" or should I try
to tell the guy that it might not work.

You tell me that you are going to buy a piece of bamboo (that if you
do not store very carefully will warp like crazy) split it lengthwise
and carve out the webs; paint it with epoxy; glue it back together and
then sheath it with 200 oz. glass; and that you have been thinking
about this for years -- have you ever given thought to the fact that
if you were to build a foam cored ,glass coated mast, similar to those
used on wind surfers it would be (1) stronger and (2) easier to build?

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

Bruce, I didn't know you had done it but I got the impression that you
were another usenet idiot that likes to tell people what to do without
having ever tried it since you didn't state that you have done this
before. I didn't mean to offend you but posting to newsgroups in the
past has occasionally brought these people to me and it really bothers
me.I apologize if that is not you or your intention. As for the
thought of a foam cored fiberglass mast, yes I have thought of it
along with aluminum but ultimately I want the boat to be all wood and
rope appearance, as much as possible. I know treating the bamboo is
more work but I am doing a lot of things that are more work just to
get the boat I really want. I am planning on making my own rope
stropped blocks as well. They will be bigger and take a lot more time
but I think it will give a better appearance. The sheaves will be
bronze but little else will be made of anything other than wood, rope
or clear fiberglass. Maybe this will clear things up and bring the
peace back to RBB.

Bill

Re Rope stropped blocks:

I'm not being sarcastic here but if you are really capable of building
authentic rope stropped blocks with decent bearings then, for God's
sake, slip an advertisement into "Wooden Boat", or one of the other
vintage boat magazines as real authentic wooden blocks command a very
good price. In fact there was an article in "Practical Boat,Owner", a
British boating magazine, some years back about a chap that was
building a wood boat and couldn't locate any authentic wooden blocks
so started making some. He soon found that he could sell every one he
could make amd started a one man factory to make them -- the article
never said whether he finished his boat or not....


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 08:05:37 -0000, Two meter troll
wrote:

Probably some of the last commercial sailing boats were the Bugis
schooners from S. Sulawasi that didn't use bamboo to build their
boats.

A good place to see a large number of Bugis built traditional schooners is
in Surabaya city on the east end of Java, just prior to the shift in winds
to return them to Sulawasi.


Still doesn;t make bamboo a good boat building material.

I have neve used bamboo on the water, but I did build a traditional bamboo
house years ago and watched the structual integrity of the bamboo break down
over a few years. I should add that this was a stilt house with ample air
circulation with a dry climate for at least 6 months of the year. Best
thing about a bamboo house is that you get a nice, new fresh house every few
years.

However, if someone is quite determined to use bamboo research into the
numerous varieties of bamboo. There is one bamboo in Thailand, that is solid
and used often for tool handles such as a garden hoe handle.

Bruce, this is the bamboo that has the very sharp thorns, would know the
scientific name ?

...Ken


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:43:30 -0700, Bill
wrote stuff
and I replied:

Political announcement:

Top post

AND I will remove the last 3 weeks' postings as well:

Bill:

You are "asking for advice" on a public forum. Not everybody who
questions your actions has to have tried it before. Much of the
progress of any engineering process relies on the expoerience of many
other people, who have tried stuff and documented their failures along
with their successes.

In turn many others have read of the repeated experience of other
people (that's science and its spread) and will pass it on to any
person who tried to repeat past failures.

Bruce has apparently had direct experience with bamboo. He has also
seen bamboo fail when others tried it.

Stop clinging to your ideas....no...fine cling as you wish...but do
NOT belittle those who have either experenced failure or WITNESSED
failure, who are willing to pass that experience on.

Bruce, I didn't know you had done it but I got the impression that you
were another usenet idiot that likes to tell people what to do without
having ever tried it since you didn't state that you have done this
before. I didn't mean to offend you but posting to newsgroups in the
past has occasionally brought these people to me and it really bothers
me.I apologize if that is not you or your intention. As for the
thought of a foam cored fiberglass mast, yes I have thought of it
along with aluminum but ultimately I want the boat to be all wood and
rope appearance, as much as possible. I know treating the bamboo is
more work but I am doing a lot of things that are more work just to
get the boat I really want. I am planning on making my own rope
stropped blocks as well. They will be bigger and take a lot more time
but I think it will give a better appearance. The sheaves will be
bronze but little else will be made of anything other than wood, rope
or clear fiberglass. Maybe this will clear things up and bring the
peace back to RBB.

Bill

Human bevaviour: Bestiality with a brain

On Jul 6, 2:37 am, Bruce wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:43:30 -0700, Bill





wrote:
On Jul 5, 5:58 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:20:39 -0700, Bill

wrote:
Well, sorry you are so defensive. The reason I care is this is a
builders group, and I am a builder. You came here for help (unless you
are just dreaming and bragging) and I thought I was helping. Screw you
though, I won't make that mistake again. I can't imagine coming to
someone for help, then turning into an ahole when you hear something
you don't want to hear or address, but that's just me.

I posted an update of my build for all the people that might be
interested and I immediately get replies of 'why would you do that,
that wont ever work and it's not a good idea' from people that have
never tried it before. The responses I got from you and Bruce were
very harsh and from people that have not even stated any experience
with this material. In my experience when two people interested in
building something are talking a project it is more constructive than
that. You ask questions if you don't know and make polite
suggestions, you don't say things like it could never be a permanent
solution, if you haven't tried it. You don't jump all over someone
that has been planning or many months after thingkin about it for five
minutes. Sorry if I seem a bit defensive but I came here to share and
post a little something to an otherwise low active group and I get
attacked by several people that think they know everything. Next time
you try to help someone maybe you could be polite about it. That goes
for Bruce even more, just because you never did it doesn't mean it
can't be done.

I rather resent your statement "from people that have
never tried it before" as I've been building boats since I was 12
years old - more then sixty years ago and I have attempted to use
bamboo for a number of purposes ranging from masts to handles for boat
hooks and found that contrary to appearances it was never as effective
as some other common material. I might also mention that I am a
mechanical engineer so I do have some familiarity with strengths of
various materials.

I believe I stated that it is your boat, with the implication that you
could and would do as you wanted.

So, enlighten me. Would you suggest I do the next time someone starts
to explain how they are going to go to something that I have tried and
found to be a totally unsatisfactory solution to the problem? Should I
walk away snickering under my breath, "friggin idjet" or should I try
to tell the guy that it might not work.

You tell me that you are going to buy a piece of bamboo (that if you
do not store very carefully will warp like crazy) split it lengthwise
and carve out the webs; paint it with epoxy; glue it back together and
then sheath it with 200 oz. glass; and that you have been thinking
about this for years -- have you ever given thought to the fact that
if you were to build a foam cored ,glass coated mast, similar to those
used on wind surfers it would be (1) stronger and (2) easier to build?

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

Bruce, I didn't know you had done it but I got the impression that you
were another usenet idiot that likes to tell people what to do without
having ever tried it since you didn't state that you have done this
before. I didn't mean to offend you but posting to newsgroups in the
past has occasionally brought these people to me and it really bothers
me.I apologize if that is not you or your intention. As for the
thought of a foam cored fiberglass mast, yes I have thought of it
along with aluminum but ultimately I want the boat to be all wood and
rope appearance, as much as possible. I know treating the bamboo is
more work but I am doing a lot of things that are more work just to
get the boat I really want. I am planning on making my own rope
stropped blocks as well. They will be bigger and take a lot more time
but I think it will give a better appearance. The sheaves will be
bronze but little else will be made of anything other than wood, rope
or clear fiberglass. Maybe this will clear things up and bring the
peace back to RBB.

Bill

Re Rope stropped blocks:

I'm not being sarcastic here but if you are really capable of building
authentic rope stropped blocks with decent bearings then, for God's
sake, slip an advertisement into "Wooden Boat", or one of the other
vintage boat magazines as real authentic wooden blocks command a very
good price. In fact there was an article in "Practical Boat,Owner", a
British boating magazine, some years back about a chap that was
building a wood boat and couldn't locate any authentic wooden blocks
so started making some. He soon found that he could sell every one he
could make amd started a one man factory to make them -- the article
never said whether he finished his boat or not....

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have actually thought of that. I wanted to finish my boat first
before taking on any extra commitments like that. I also wanted to
make them and use them a lot before selling anything to other people.
I am sure there will be a little trial and error here. The few places
I saw that sold them got very high prices and had long wait times for
orders. If mine turn out well enough I may sell a few.......but after
I finish the boat.

On Jul 6, 8:38 am, "Island Teak" wrote:
"Bruce" wrote in message

...

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 08:05:37 -0000, Two meter troll
wrote:

Probably some of the last commercial sailing boats were the Bugis
schooners from S. Sulawasi that didn't use bamboo to build their
boats.

A good place to see a large number of Bugis built traditional schooners is
in Surabaya city on the east end of Java, just prior to the shift in winds
to return them to Sulawasi.

Still doesn;t make bamboo a good boat building material.

I have neve used bamboo on the water, but I did build a traditional bamboo
house years ago and watched the structual integrity of the bamboo break down
over a few years. I should add that this was a stilt house with ample air
circulation with a dry climate for at least 6 months of the year. Best
thing about a bamboo house is that you get a nice, new fresh house every few
years.

However, if someone is quite determined to use bamboo research into the
numerous varieties of bamboo. There is one bamboo in Thailand, that is solid
and used often for tool handles such as a garden hoe handle.

Bruce, this is the bamboo that has the very sharp thorns, would know the
scientific name ?

...Ken



Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Was the bamboo treated in any way? How many years did it last. I am
planning to get two poles and treating two masts. The idea is that if
I get five years per mast then I have a good inexpensive beautiful
lightweight mast that will go ten years. Thats not too bad for a $100
and a little build time. If they last 10 years each I will be
extremely happy. I plan to treat them and plug the ends so that the
inside wont get wet at all even with the epoxy coating. I also will
take the seecond mast the first few sails and the first few long sails
just in case I push too hard or just screw up and break a mast. I
really want to use bamboo for the look and weight.

"Bill" wrote in message
ps.com...


I have neve used bamboo on the water, but I did build a traditional
bamboo
house years ago and watched the structual integrity of the bamboo break
down
over a few years. I should add that this was a stilt house with ample air
circulation with a dry climate for at least 6 months of the year. Best
thing about a bamboo house is that you get a nice, new fresh house every
few
years.


- Show quoted text -

Was the bamboo treated in any way? How many years did it last. I am
planning to get two poles and treating two masts. The idea is that if
I get five years per mast then I have a good inexpensive beautiful
lightweight mast that will go ten years. Thats not too bad for a $100
and a little build time. If they last 10 years each I will be
extremely happy. I plan to treat them and plug the ends so that the
inside wont get wet at all even with the epoxy coating. I also will
take the seecond mast the first few sails and the first few long sails
just in case I push too hard or just screw up and break a mast. I
really want to use bamboo for the look and weight.

Not treated at all and the bamboo houses last maybe 3 years depending on
insects and the wet periods.

Best of luck to you.

...Ken

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:38:24 GMT, "Island Teak"
wrote:


"Bruce" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 08:05:37 -0000, Two meter troll
wrote:

Probably some of the last commercial sailing boats were the Bugis
schooners from S. Sulawasi that didn't use bamboo to build their
boats.

A good place to see a large number of Bugis built traditional schooners is
in Surabaya city on the east end of Java, just prior to the shift in winds
to return them to Sulawasi.


Still doesn;t make bamboo a good boat building material.

I have neve used bamboo on the water, but I did build a traditional bamboo
house years ago and watched the structual integrity of the bamboo break down
over a few years. I should add that this was a stilt house with ample air
circulation with a dry climate for at least 6 months of the year. Best
thing about a bamboo house is that you get a nice, new fresh house every few
years.

However, if someone is quite determined to use bamboo research into the
numerous varieties of bamboo. There is one bamboo in Thailand, that is solid
and used often for tool handles such as a garden hoe handle.

Bruce, this is the bamboo that has the very sharp thorns, would know the
scientific name ?

...Ken


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)


I can't give you the scientific name but in Thai it is pietan
(probably a lousy phonetic translation and mispelled to boot). The
Thai word translates to pie (bamboo) solid (tan).

I'm not sure how many Bugis sailing schooners there are left. Ten
years, or so, ago I was building a small gas refinery in Central Java
and had several commissioning engineers over from the States. As we
lived in a little Chinese hotel and ate Indonesian food I tried to
take everybody to the closest town, Cirebon, every Sunday to get a
western meal and do some shopping. Since the guys were all homesick
for America I used to try and show them "the sights" to take their
minds off being thousands of miles from home.

One Sunday I took them down to the harbor to show them the Bugis
boats. On the way I gave them a real pep talk about these being the
last commercial sailing boats; been building them since the Portuguese
days, bla, bla.

When we finally got there were Bugis boats in droves -- and not a
single one had a mast. Apparently the Bugis have discovered the
internal combustion engine and taken it to heart. The boats look the
same, except for the lack of a mast, but they all have a big diesel
mounted on the side with a long shaft like a Thai long tail boat.
Still got the steering oars though.

More about Bamboo. Some years back there were a number of commercial
buildings, mainly in the countryside, that used bamboo in place of
re-bar. My brother in law build a small warehouse using it. The
warehouse is still standing and in use today but whether that is
because bamboo makes good re-bar or blind luck I cannot say.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com