I am about to embark on building a 10 ft stitch and glue dinghy, a Dudly
Dix, Argie 10.

I would think this has been asked, but so far I haven't found it. Can I
use those plastic self cinching cable ties to hold the panels together
until I glass them? I would think they would sand off more smoothly
than wire?

Any thoughts?

Jonathan

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...
I am about to embark on building a 10 ft stitch and glue dinghy, a Dudly
Dix, Argie 10.

I would think this has been asked, but so far I haven't found it. Can I
use those plastic self cinching cable ties to hold the panels together
until I glass them? I would think they would sand off more smoothly
than wire?

Any thoughts?

Jonathan

Yes you can. Use as few as possible to keep the shape fair, more in areas
of high curvature, typically near the bow.

--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...
I am about to embark on building a 10 ft stitch and glue dinghy, a Dudly
Dix, Argie 10.

I would think this has been asked, but so far I haven't found it. Can I
use those plastic self cinching cable ties to hold the panels together
until I glass them? I would think they would sand off more smoothly
than wire?

Any thoughts?

Jonathan

Yes you can. Use as few as possible to keep the shape fair, more in areas
of high curvature, typically near the bow.

--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

You can go that route.

Here's how I do it (I'm sure not everyone will agree). Keep in mind I
just do kayaks and canoes.

I do "tack welds". The hull is stitched together and then I apply a
small amount of filleting material on each side of the cable tie and let
it cure (don't forget to precoat the weld areas with some resin).

Then I cut the cable ties/stitches and remove. Fill in the holes as you
fillet the seams.

You have to be careful doing this as the tack welds will crack if you
shift the hull. That's why I'll only do this process one seam at a
time...tack weld, remove stitches, seam fillet, glass, and then repeat.

It's some extra steps but it's how I prefer it.

--
Matt Langenfeld
JEM Watercraft
jemwatercraft.com

Jonathan wrote:
I am about to embark on building a 10 ft stitch and glue dinghy, a Dudly
Dix, Argie 10.

I would think this has been asked, but so far I haven't found it. Can I
use those plastic self cinching cable ties to hold the panels together
until I glass them? I would think they would sand off more smoothly
than wire?

Any thoughts?

Jonathan

"Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message ...
"Jonathan" wrote in message
...
I am about to embark on building a 10 ft stitch and glue dinghy, a Dudly
Dix, Argie 10.

I would think this has been asked, but so far I haven't found it. Can I
use those plastic self cinching cable ties to hold the panels together
until I glass them? I would think they would sand off more smoothly
than wire?

Any thoughts?

Jonathan

Yes you can. Use as few as possible to keep the shape fair, more in areas
of high curvature, typically near the bow.

With all due respect to Evan I have another opinion to share. You can
use plastic ties but don't. Go to home depot or such and get some 7
strand copper ground wire, or a couple of packages of 18 guage copper
wire, cut it into 4" pieces and fold them over so they look like "U"
nails. The seven strand is thicker but of course holds better. Plastic
ties can not be easily re-opened and tweaked during your tie up and
there will be times when you want to loosen one or two and readjust,
with ties you can only cut and redo them if that need arises and
completely cutting them to adjust can cause even more problems. Ties
click, and sometimes to get things really fair, you could use a half a
click, not possible with ties. Copper is much easier to shape and
string through the holes, you can use a much smaller hole, you just
have a lot more control. As to sanding, snip the copper off low with
snips and then touch gently a few times with your sander and it should
come right down fair, they will sand down just fine with a little soft
touch. You may rip a couple of pieces of paper but all in all after
some 70 stitch and tape boats, having tried almost everything, I still
use copper wire. I do keep a lot of sizes on hand but only for
flexability with custom work.
Scotty, back to the hunt..

thank you for the information.
i think i will go for the copper solution, looks like the moste
logical...for adjusting and so on...

how would be the best way to glue the two parts toghether? (sorry for such a
stupid question, but im a newbie :-) )

mat


"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
"Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message
...
"Jonathan" wrote in message
...
I am about to embark on building a 10 ft stitch and glue dinghy, a
Dudly
Dix, Argie 10.

I would think this has been asked, but so far I haven't found it. Can
I
use those plastic self cinching cable ties to hold the panels together
until I glass them? I would think they would sand off more smoothly
than wire?

Any thoughts?

Jonathan

Yes you can. Use as few as possible to keep the shape fair, more in
areas
of high curvature, typically near the bow.

With all due respect to Evan I have another opinion to share. You can
use plastic ties but don't. Go to home depot or such and get some 7
strand copper ground wire, or a couple of packages of 18 guage copper
wire, cut it into 4" pieces and fold them over so they look like "U"
nails. The seven strand is thicker but of course holds better. Plastic
ties can not be easily re-opened and tweaked during your tie up and
there will be times when you want to loosen one or two and readjust,
with ties you can only cut and redo them if that need arises and
completely cutting them to adjust can cause even more problems. Ties
click, and sometimes to get things really fair, you could use a half a
click, not possible with ties. Copper is much easier to shape and
string through the holes, you can use a much smaller hole, you just
have a lot more control. As to sanding, snip the copper off low with
snips and then touch gently a few times with your sander and it should
come right down fair, they will sand down just fine with a little soft
touch. You may rip a couple of pieces of paper but all in all after
some 70 stitch and tape boats, having tried almost everything, I still
use copper wire. I do keep a lot of sizes on hand but only for
flexability with custom work.
Scotty, back to the hunt..


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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"Matthias Broersma" wrote...

how would be the best way to glue the two parts toghether? (sorry for such
a
stupid question, but im a newbie :-) )

For their kayak kits, Pygmy Boats recommends you simply fill in the outside
seam with thickened epoxy (use wood flour if you will finish it bright; wood
flour or silica if you will paint it) to glue the panels together, then
remove the wires before doing any taping. The epoxy glues the joint and
serves as the base for the tape/cloth wrapped around the joint, reducing the
probability of voids under the tape.

If you pull the wires before the epoxy fully cures (within 24 hours), it is
possible to snip and pull out most, if not all the wires before laying any
cloth or tape. Then fair the areas around the holes. Small voids, as well
as the wire holes, will fill in when you saturate the tape/cloth with epoxy.

After that, lay the cloth or tape on the outside and squeegee in the epoxy.
Finally, fillet the inside joint with thickened epoxy before taping. The
rounded fillet will give more strength than the sharp turn of tape/cloth.

"Matthias Broersma" wrote...

how would be the best way to glue the two parts toghether? (sorry for such
a
stupid question, but im a newbie :-) )

For their kayak kits, Pygmy Boats recommends you simply fill in the outside
seam with thickened epoxy (use wood flour if you will finish it bright; wood
flour or silica if you will paint it) to glue the panels together, then
remove the wires before doing any taping. The epoxy glues the joint and
serves as the base for the tape/cloth wrapped around the joint, reducing the
probability of voids under the tape.

If you pull the wires before the epoxy fully cures (within 24 hours), it is
possible to snip and pull out most, if not all the wires before laying any
cloth or tape. Then fair the areas around the holes. Small voids, as well
as the wire holes, will fill in when you saturate the tape/cloth with epoxy.

After that, lay the cloth or tape on the outside and squeegee in the epoxy.
Finally, fillet the inside joint with thickened epoxy before taping. The
rounded fillet will give more strength than the sharp turn of tape/cloth.

"Matthias Broersma" matthias.broersmaATNOSPAMPLEASEfastwebnet.it wrote in message li.nl...
thank you for the information.
i think i will go for the copper solution, looks like the moste
logical...for adjusting and so on...


how would be the best way to glue the two parts toghether? (sorry for such a
stupid question, but im a newbie :-) )

mat

You will need to build a lamination of epoxy and fiberglass on either
side or the seam. You really should get ahold of the book "Build the
new instant boats" by Dynamite Payson, available at "instantboats.com"
or the local library or bookstore. Anyway, it is a quick read and will
walk you through the whole stitch and tape process start to finish and
add enough info so you don't have to spend your days here. After
reading this book you will have most of it down, no problem,
especially having experience with tools. It's a quick read, hour at
the most, less than 200 pages and filled with pictures and plans for 6
other small boats...

Scotty who does have a business realationship with Dynamite that is
not necessarily related to building boats, however, I get no
commissions or similar for my suggestions here on the list..




"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
"Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message
...
"Jonathan" wrote in message
...
I am about to embark on building a 10 ft stitch and glue dinghy, a
Dudly
Dix, Argie 10.

I would think this has been asked, but so far I haven't found it. Can
I
use those plastic self cinching cable ties to hold the panels together
until I glass them? I would think they would sand off more smoothly
than wire?

Any thoughts?

Jonathan

Yes you can. Use as few as possible to keep the shape fair, more in
areas
of high curvature, typically near the bow.

With all due respect to Evan I have another opinion to share. You can
use plastic ties but don't. Go to home depot or such and get some 7
strand copper ground wire, or a couple of packages of 18 guage copper
wire, cut it into 4" pieces and fold them over so they look like "U"
nails. The seven strand is thicker but of course holds better. Plastic
ties can not be easily re-opened and tweaked during your tie up and
there will be times when you want to loosen one or two and readjust,
with ties you can only cut and redo them if that need arises and
completely cutting them to adjust can cause even more problems. Ties
click, and sometimes to get things really fair, you could use a half a
click, not possible with ties. Copper is much easier to shape and
string through the holes, you can use a much smaller hole, you just
have a lot more control. As to sanding, snip the copper off low with
snips and then touch gently a few times with your sander and it should
come right down fair, they will sand down just fine with a little soft
touch. You may rip a couple of pieces of paper but all in all after
some 70 stitch and tape boats, having tried almost everything, I still
use copper wire. I do keep a lot of sizes on hand but only for
flexability with custom work.
Scotty, back to the hunt..


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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On 24 Jun 2004 05:34:49 -0700, (Backyard
Renegade) wrote:

"Evan Gatehouse" wrote

Yes you can [use cable ties for S&G boats].

With all due respect to Evan I have another opinion to share. You can
use plastic ties but don't. Go to home depot or such and get some 7
strand copper ground wire, or a couple of packages of 18 guage copper
wire, cut it into 4" pieces and fold them over so they look like "U"
nails.
(snip)

Scotty's several dozen S&G boats ahead of me, but I think copper sucks
for stitching boats together. I use hefty cable ties, and when I need
to loosen one up, I do what Scotty says -- I snip them off and put in
a new one. I find that copper either breaks when I twist it with
pliers, or, if I use thick wire, pulls out of the plywood. It also
stabs me in the fingers so often I feel like I've been playing with
barbed wire or blackberry vines.

Who makes better trucks: Chevy, Ford, Dodge, or Toyota? Ask four
people, get four answers. All of them will get the job done. Same
with stitches.

Jacques Merten's tech support web site has some good "how to" articles
for beginners. Check he http://bateau2.com/content/section/5/28/.

Have fun. You can't build just one!

- Rick Tyler

--
"Ignorant voracity -- a wingless vulture -- can soar only into the
depths of ignominy." Patrick O'Brian