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#1
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Stitch & glue, cable ties?
I am about to embark on building a 10 ft stitch and glue dinghy, a Dudly
Dix, Argie 10. I would think this has been asked, but so far I haven't found it. Can I use those plastic self cinching cable ties to hold the panels together until I glass them? I would think they would sand off more smoothly than wire? Any thoughts? Jonathan |
#2
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Stitch & glue, cable ties?
"Jonathan" wrote in message ... I am about to embark on building a 10 ft stitch and glue dinghy, a Dudly Dix, Argie 10. I would think this has been asked, but so far I haven't found it. Can I use those plastic self cinching cable ties to hold the panels together until I glass them? I would think they would sand off more smoothly than wire? Any thoughts? Jonathan Yes you can. Use as few as possible to keep the shape fair, more in areas of high curvature, typically near the bow. -- Evan Gatehouse you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me ceilydh AT 3web dot net (fools the spammers) |
#3
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Stitch & glue, cable ties?
"Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message ...
"Jonathan" wrote in message ... I am about to embark on building a 10 ft stitch and glue dinghy, a Dudly Dix, Argie 10. I would think this has been asked, but so far I haven't found it. Can I use those plastic self cinching cable ties to hold the panels together until I glass them? I would think they would sand off more smoothly than wire? Any thoughts? Jonathan Yes you can. Use as few as possible to keep the shape fair, more in areas of high curvature, typically near the bow. With all due respect to Evan I have another opinion to share. You can use plastic ties but don't. Go to home depot or such and get some 7 strand copper ground wire, or a couple of packages of 18 guage copper wire, cut it into 4" pieces and fold them over so they look like "U" nails. The seven strand is thicker but of course holds better. Plastic ties can not be easily re-opened and tweaked during your tie up and there will be times when you want to loosen one or two and readjust, with ties you can only cut and redo them if that need arises and completely cutting them to adjust can cause even more problems. Ties click, and sometimes to get things really fair, you could use a half a click, not possible with ties. Copper is much easier to shape and string through the holes, you can use a much smaller hole, you just have a lot more control. As to sanding, snip the copper off low with snips and then touch gently a few times with your sander and it should come right down fair, they will sand down just fine with a little soft touch. You may rip a couple of pieces of paper but all in all after some 70 stitch and tape boats, having tried almost everything, I still use copper wire. I do keep a lot of sizes on hand but only for flexability with custom work. Scotty, back to the hunt.. |
#4
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Stitch & glue, cable ties?
thank you for the information.
i think i will go for the copper solution, looks like the moste logical...for adjusting and so on... how would be the best way to glue the two parts toghether? (sorry for such a stupid question, but im a newbie :-) ) mat "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message ... "Jonathan" wrote in message ... I am about to embark on building a 10 ft stitch and glue dinghy, a Dudly Dix, Argie 10. I would think this has been asked, but so far I haven't found it. Can I use those plastic self cinching cable ties to hold the panels together until I glass them? I would think they would sand off more smoothly than wire? Any thoughts? Jonathan Yes you can. Use as few as possible to keep the shape fair, more in areas of high curvature, typically near the bow. With all due respect to Evan I have another opinion to share. You can use plastic ties but don't. Go to home depot or such and get some 7 strand copper ground wire, or a couple of packages of 18 guage copper wire, cut it into 4" pieces and fold them over so they look like "U" nails. The seven strand is thicker but of course holds better. Plastic ties can not be easily re-opened and tweaked during your tie up and there will be times when you want to loosen one or two and readjust, with ties you can only cut and redo them if that need arises and completely cutting them to adjust can cause even more problems. Ties click, and sometimes to get things really fair, you could use a half a click, not possible with ties. Copper is much easier to shape and string through the holes, you can use a much smaller hole, you just have a lot more control. As to sanding, snip the copper off low with snips and then touch gently a few times with your sander and it should come right down fair, they will sand down just fine with a little soft touch. You may rip a couple of pieces of paper but all in all after some 70 stitch and tape boats, having tried almost everything, I still use copper wire. I do keep a lot of sizes on hand but only for flexability with custom work. Scotty, back to the hunt.. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.708 / Virus Database: 464 - Release Date: 18/06/2004 |
#5
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Stitch & glue, cable ties?
"Matthias Broersma" wrote...
how would be the best way to glue the two parts toghether? (sorry for such a stupid question, but im a newbie :-) ) For their kayak kits, Pygmy Boats recommends you simply fill in the outside seam with thickened epoxy (use wood flour if you will finish it bright; wood flour or silica if you will paint it) to glue the panels together, then remove the wires before doing any taping. The epoxy glues the joint and serves as the base for the tape/cloth wrapped around the joint, reducing the probability of voids under the tape. If you pull the wires before the epoxy fully cures (within 24 hours), it is possible to snip and pull out most, if not all the wires before laying any cloth or tape. Then fair the areas around the holes. Small voids, as well as the wire holes, will fill in when you saturate the tape/cloth with epoxy. After that, lay the cloth or tape on the outside and squeegee in the epoxy. Finally, fillet the inside joint with thickened epoxy before taping. The rounded fillet will give more strength than the sharp turn of tape/cloth. |
#6
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Stitch & glue, cable ties?
"Matthias Broersma" wrote...
how would be the best way to glue the two parts toghether? (sorry for such a stupid question, but im a newbie :-) ) For their kayak kits, Pygmy Boats recommends you simply fill in the outside seam with thickened epoxy (use wood flour if you will finish it bright; wood flour or silica if you will paint it) to glue the panels together, then remove the wires before doing any taping. The epoxy glues the joint and serves as the base for the tape/cloth wrapped around the joint, reducing the probability of voids under the tape. If you pull the wires before the epoxy fully cures (within 24 hours), it is possible to snip and pull out most, if not all the wires before laying any cloth or tape. Then fair the areas around the holes. Small voids, as well as the wire holes, will fill in when you saturate the tape/cloth with epoxy. After that, lay the cloth or tape on the outside and squeegee in the epoxy. Finally, fillet the inside joint with thickened epoxy before taping. The rounded fillet will give more strength than the sharp turn of tape/cloth. |
#7
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Stitch & glue, cable ties?
"Matthias Broersma" matthias.broersmaATNOSPAMPLEASEfastwebnet.it wrote in message li.nl...
thank you for the information. i think i will go for the copper solution, looks like the moste logical...for adjusting and so on... how would be the best way to glue the two parts toghether? (sorry for such a stupid question, but im a newbie :-) ) mat You will need to build a lamination of epoxy and fiberglass on either side or the seam. You really should get ahold of the book "Build the new instant boats" by Dynamite Payson, available at "instantboats.com" or the local library or bookstore. Anyway, it is a quick read and will walk you through the whole stitch and tape process start to finish and add enough info so you don't have to spend your days here. After reading this book you will have most of it down, no problem, especially having experience with tools. It's a quick read, hour at the most, less than 200 pages and filled with pictures and plans for 6 other small boats... Scotty who does have a business realationship with Dynamite that is not necessarily related to building boats, however, I get no commissions or similar for my suggestions here on the list.. "Backyard Renegade" wrote in message om... "Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message ... "Jonathan" wrote in message ... I am about to embark on building a 10 ft stitch and glue dinghy, a Dudly Dix, Argie 10. I would think this has been asked, but so far I haven't found it. Can I use those plastic self cinching cable ties to hold the panels together until I glass them? I would think they would sand off more smoothly than wire? Any thoughts? Jonathan Yes you can. Use as few as possible to keep the shape fair, more in areas of high curvature, typically near the bow. With all due respect to Evan I have another opinion to share. You can use plastic ties but don't. Go to home depot or such and get some 7 strand copper ground wire, or a couple of packages of 18 guage copper wire, cut it into 4" pieces and fold them over so they look like "U" nails. The seven strand is thicker but of course holds better. Plastic ties can not be easily re-opened and tweaked during your tie up and there will be times when you want to loosen one or two and readjust, with ties you can only cut and redo them if that need arises and completely cutting them to adjust can cause even more problems. Ties click, and sometimes to get things really fair, you could use a half a click, not possible with ties. Copper is much easier to shape and string through the holes, you can use a much smaller hole, you just have a lot more control. As to sanding, snip the copper off low with snips and then touch gently a few times with your sander and it should come right down fair, they will sand down just fine with a little soft touch. You may rip a couple of pieces of paper but all in all after some 70 stitch and tape boats, having tried almost everything, I still use copper wire. I do keep a lot of sizes on hand but only for flexability with custom work. Scotty, back to the hunt.. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.708 / Virus Database: 464 - Release Date: 18/06/2004 |
#8
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Stitch & glue, cable ties?
On the two boats I've built, I've used the cable ties. They don't bond well with epoxy so can generally remove them with pliers after epoxy as set
up. Also, if they do break and get left in the epoxy, they sand away into dust.... paul oman progressive epoxy polymers |
#10
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Stitch & glue, cable ties?
Rick Tyler wrote in message . ..
On 24 Jun 2004 05:34:49 -0700, (Backyard Renegade) wrote: "Evan Gatehouse" wrote Yes you can [use cable ties for S&G boats]. With all due respect to Evan I have another opinion to share. You can use plastic ties but don't. Go to home depot or such and get some 7 strand copper ground wire, or a couple of packages of 18 guage copper wire, cut it into 4" pieces and fold them over so they look like "U" nails. (snip) Scotty's several dozen S&G boats ahead of me, but I think copper sucks for stitching boats together. I use hefty cable ties, and when I need to loosen one up, I do what Scotty says -- I snip them off and put in a new one. I find that copper either breaks when I twist it with pliers, or, if I use thick wire, pulls out of the plywood. It also stabs me in the fingers so often I feel like I've been playing with barbed wire or blackberry vines. Yeah, I like pain.. I also wait till mid July to do all my sheathing Really, I must admit to using many things along the road. My philosophy with ties is to use as few as possible and a little masking tape where the strong hold is not needed. I tried also the hot glue tabs but if you really hate the copper you can always heat the wire and pull it out after the epoxy has set. The key is to use what works for you, they are only temporary attachments. Actually since reading his other post about wanting to build the boat in two weeks with his daughter, I would have suggested a skin (plywood) on frame boat like a small pointy skiff or something anyway. A noobie is not going to build a S+T in two weeks in most cases... Scotty Who makes better trucks: Chevy, Ford, Dodge, or Toyota? Ask four people, get four answers. All of them will get the job done. Same with stitches. Jacques Merten's tech support web site has some good "how to" articles for beginners. Check he http://bateau2.com/content/section/5/28/. Have fun. You can't build just one! - Rick Tyler |
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