Backyard Renegade wrote:
Jonathan wrote in message

I'm curious as to why you might think that? (That it will take more
than two dedicated weeks)

Actually I am more curious as to what pitfalls you see me stumbling into
that i can't see,( still having the blissful veil of ignorance).

As I think about it, there is the obvious, i.e. scheduling boat work is
best accomplished by estimating the time required, then multiplying by
2.5, so that you will only be short by 30% of your estimate

but are there any common pitfalls that I might avoid with a few
suggestions/pointers by others?


Hey I just found this for another guy and though of you.
http://www.microcruising.com/ding1.htm
Not trying to be a wiseass here, better to shoot a little low and be
successful, than to chew off more than you can chew and fail.
This boat would allow more input from your daughter and you can take
your time and finish it up easy, maybe even time for here to add her
own paint scheme She will not get bored and you will not get left at
the end of vacation with a half finished project and a dissappointed
family.
The fact is, it will not be the last boat you build, it's just how
this addiciton goes, you can still build a nice s+t in your spare time
over the summer or fall. No reason not to cut your teeth with a simple
and almost guaranteed successful first build..
Scotty

I appreciate the thought, and one of my questions was answered. (do I
want to layout the sides twice, or lay out once, cut then trace them)

I was leaning toward tracing it anyway ....

I am committed to this design (I am committed to a sailing dinghy in any
event) for her to putter around in after we anchor in the evenings.

Every little bit of knowledge that someone thinks to share is one error
I might not make the first time, so I appreciate all efforts

Jonathan

Jonathan wrote in message ...
Ah....well.While assembling a dinghy from sheets of plywood is a new
endeavor, I have been using epoxy and it's many additives for 15 years
or so, using about a gallon a year in different applications on the job.
As a carpenter/construction manager I've found many applications for its
gap filling and adhesive qualities, both in work on boats and on more
pedestrian projects.

I do have questions like: do I want to assemble the two sides of the
bottom together, then attach the sides, or do I want to assemble the two
halves of the boat and put them together down the middle?

The designer provided layouts with a very efficient utilization of the
plywood, something that strikes me as possibly taking a lot of time to
figure out otherwise. One of the sheets says to make two sets (it is the
bottom halves and the sides) I am inclined to lay out one sheet, cut it
out, then trace the second set? as opposed to the time taken to lay out
the second one again, plotting each of the curves again.....any thought?

I have every thing I need, except for the mast, boom and a gooseneck
for the boom...

Still, it is a boat, which has it's own force field of surprises.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Jonathan

Well, we have all given you our thoughts for almost a week, you choose
to keep trying to squirm around them... Time to **** or get off the
pot!






Brian D wrote:
The delay factors would include waiting for epoxy to cure ...you'd be
surprised at how many times you have to do something, then wait wait. With
experience, you can figure out how to order steps so you can do a nice job
and do things wet-on-wet. Also, beginners tend to spend more time futzing
around with getting the right amount of thickener in the epoxy, applying it
carefully, trying to get fiberglass to work the way you expected etcetera.
Most boats cannot be built in 2 weeks, unless it's very simple and you have
some knowledge about what you are doing, and everything is already acquired
and ready to go. The reason that Scotty mentioned skin on frame is because
you can basically work non-stop as time and energy permits. No waiting on
curing except when you are done, you generally must wait for sealants to
cure before painting. That depends on which you select.

"Brian D" writes:


Also, beginners tend to spend more time futzing
around with getting the right amount of thickener in the epoxy, applying it
carefully, trying to get fiberglass to work the way you expected etcetera.

You forgot the part where the beginner plops himself down in
Chapelle's "wailing chair", stews over the obvious mistake,
grinds off two days worth of fiberglass and epoxy, then starts
over. Plus mixing too much epoxy, and having it go off in the
pot.

I bought two one ounce pumps, for my first epoxy boats (five
cheap canoes). I mix up 3oz batches, apply that, then mix
another. I also use super slow epoxy resin. Where I live
(Sacramento) it's often 110F, and slow epoxy can go off in a
few minutes under some conditions.


--
I don't speak for Intel
Michael Kelly (the one in Folsom)
"and nobody is fooled except the usual fools."
--Jonah Goldberg

I'm surprised that your designer didn't give more instructions on how to
assemble the pieces. Basically every variation exists, and most are
designed to allow a little natural error in the process, e.g. wood bends a
little different. Others are very exact and you make the wood conform
rather than the design conforming to the wood. For example, some boats use
various methods to build the sides, then fit and mark the bottom to the
boat. Others have you make the bottom assembly and fit the sides to it.
Some use forms, some don't. Square (measure diagonals) and level cross the
board are the first rules, and faire curves are the next.

Concerning your questions about the sides, note that you can and should do
whatever you can to provide symmetry to the boat. On side panels, you will
typically do the best you can on one panel, then trace it out on a second
and cut it out very carefully. After cutting, you can clamp them face to
face and do what you need to in order to make them the same ...planing,
sanding, etcetera ...always keeping as close to design as you can and also
maintaining fair curves.. One of my favorite techniques is to use a top
(closer to router) bearing template bit on my router. Make the first panel
as described, then use it as a template for a router for cutting out the
second side. Be careful with the bits though, since many light boats use
thin plywood. Often times, the router bit's guide bearing will miss the
template when the cutter portion is aligned well with the piece getting cut.
This can cause the bearing to ride over the ply and the cutter will dig into
both pieces. If you really want perfection, you can make a very nice
template from thicker ply then use it as a template to cut out both sides.

Brian


--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project



..
"Jonathan" wrote in message
...


Backyard Renegade wrote:
Jonathan wrote in message

I'm curious as to why you might think that? (That it will take more
than two dedicated weeks)

Actually I am more curious as to what pitfalls you see me stumbling into
that i can't see,( still having the blissful veil of ignorance).

As I think about it, there is the obvious, i.e. scheduling boat work is
best accomplished by estimating the time required, then multiplying by
2.5, so that you will only be short by 30% of your estimate

but are there any common pitfalls that I might avoid with a few
suggestions/pointers by others?


Hey I just found this for another guy and though of you.
http://www.microcruising.com/ding1.htm
Not trying to be a wiseass here, better to shoot a little low and be
successful, than to chew off more than you can chew and fail.
This boat would allow more input from your daughter and you can take
your time and finish it up easy, maybe even time for here to add her
own paint scheme She will not get bored and you will not get left at
the end of vacation with a half finished project and a dissappointed
family.
The fact is, it will not be the last boat you build, it's just how
this addiciton goes, you can still build a nice s+t in your spare time
over the summer or fall. No reason not to cut your teeth with a simple
and almost guaranteed successful first build..
Scotty

I appreciate the thought, and one of my questions was answered. (do I
want to layout the sides twice, or lay out once, cut then trace them)

I was leaning toward tracing it anyway ....

I am committed to this design (I am committed to a sailing dinghy in any
event) for her to putter around in after we anchor in the evenings.

Every little bit of knowledge that someone thinks to share is one error
I might not make the first time, so I appreciate all efforts

Jonathan

Oh man!! I thought it was a **moaning** chair not a *wailing* chair! ...I
never gat anyting rite!

Brian D

--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project



..
"Michael Kelly - FMEC ~" wrote in message
...
"Brian D" writes:


Also, beginners tend to spend more time futzing
around with getting the right amount of thickener in the epoxy, applying
it
carefully, trying to get fiberglass to work the way you expected
etcetera.

You forgot the part where the beginner plops himself down in
Chapelle's "wailing chair", stews over the obvious mistake,
grinds off two days worth of fiberglass and epoxy, then starts
over. Plus mixing too much epoxy, and having it go off in the
pot.

I bought two one ounce pumps, for my first epoxy boats (five
cheap canoes). I mix up 3oz batches, apply that, then mix
another. I also use super slow epoxy resin. Where I live
(Sacramento) it's often 110F, and slow epoxy can go off in a
few minutes under some conditions.


--
I don't speak for Intel
Michael Kelly (the one in Folsom)
"and nobody is fooled except the usual fools."
--Jonah Goldberg

Thanks for the info.

I am surprised that there isn't alittle more information as well, now
that I am getting down to it and actually facing the construction.

I cut out one side and bottom, cleaned up the edges, and traced the
second from that. I had to cut the second by hand, with my Bosch (sabre)
saw, and on first fit they are close enough. Clamped together I will
sand them as one this afternoon.

The drawings don't show butt blocks where the side panels need to be
extended from 8 to 10 ft, and there isn't enough wood to lose any inches
on a scarph (thank christ, I don't want to learn that little skill on
this project).

All the pieces are now cut out, and I think I'll see how they fit
together with wire/ties. Maybe that will give me some clue as to what
the designer was thinking.

Thank you for your thoughts, they are giving me an idea how to proceed.

Jonathan

Brian D wrote:
I'm surprised that your designer didn't give more instructions on how to
assemble the pieces. Basically every variation exists, and most are
designed to allow a little natural error in the process, e.g. wood bends a
little different. Others are very exact and you make the wood conform
rather than the design conforming to the wood. For example, some boats use
various methods to build the sides, then fit and mark the bottom to the
boat. Others have you make the bottom assembly and fit the sides to it.
Some use forms, some don't. Square (measure diagonals) and level cross the
board are the first rules, and faire curves are the next.

Concerning your questions about the sides, note that you can and should do
whatever you can to provide symmetry to the boat. On side panels, you will
typically do the best you can on one panel, then trace it out on a second
and cut it out very carefully. After cutting, you can clamp them face to
face and do what you need to in order to make them the same ...planing,
sanding, etcetera ...always keeping as close to design as you can and also
maintaining fair curves.. One of my favorite techniques is to use a top
(closer to router) bearing template bit on my router. Make the first panel
as described, then use it as a template for a router for cutting out the
second side. Be careful with the bits though, since many light boats use
thin plywood. Often times, the router bit's guide bearing will miss the
template when the cutter portion is aligned well with the piece getting cut.
This can cause the bearing to ride over the ply and the cutter will dig into
both pieces. If you really want perfection, you can make a very nice
template from thicker ply then use it as a template to cut out both sides.

Brian

Jonathan ) writes:

The drawings don't show butt blocks where the side panels need to be
extended from 8 to 10 ft, and there isn't enough wood to lose any inches
on a scarph (thank christ, I don't want to learn that little skill on
this project).

you might be expected to use a taped fibreglass butt join. very common.
stonger than plywood. lay resin impregnated fibreglass over the join
and let cure. optionally turn over and tape other side of join. check
building instructions.


--
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"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...
you might be expected to use a taped fibreglass butt join. very common.
stonger than plywood. lay resin impregnated fibreglass over the join
and let cure. optionally turn over and tape other side of join. check
building instructions.

That is indeed exactly how Dudly Dix specifies it in his building
instructions.

Meindert

Brian D wrote:

Oh man!! I thought it was a **moaning** chair not a *wailing* chair! ...I
never gat anyting rite!

Brian D


Sorry, I lost my Chapelles ten years ago. My wife threw out my whole
library, when the third kid came along, and the kid got billeted in my
office. Now at least I get to build boats "for the children". ;-)

Mike.

Jonathan wrote:


I appreciate the thought, and one of my questions was answered. (do I
want to layout the sides twice, or lay out once, cut then trace them)

I was leaning toward tracing it anyway ....

I traced mine with a router. Course with double-ender...