Subject

Someone mentioned mixing 1/2 teaspoon amounts of resin.

Good grief, takes more resin than that to get a chip brush wet so you can go
to work.

That person must be in the micro mini model building business, not boat
building.


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

P.C. Ford ) writes:

......and is not a marine glue.

"marine glue"? its water resistent, not water proof. the label on the tube
says not to use it in construction "below grade". however plastic resin
glue is also water resistent and not water proof and I use it too as have
many other boatbuilders over the years. one of my polyurethane-glued boats
(Loonie) is not kept in the water. it is kept on on pegs on my garage wall
and transported to the water on top of the car for an afternoon outing. I
have another polyurethane-glued boat (Delta) that stayed outside its first
year off the ground but covered in 3 feet of snow in winter. in spring
snow melts bottom up which kept the hull wet for days on end. the gunwles
got pretty soft. there has been no problem with the polyurethane adhesive.
I had room to keep that boat inside this winter but in the spring its
going outside again. there are photos of both boats on my website showing
how they are used.

If I build another one of these small boats I'll certainly use the PL
Premuim again.

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Ron Thornton ) writes:
Come on William, I didn't say epoxy is necessary. I said that without
an informed opinion (in part the application testing you speak of, which
I did at GE for 10 years) you had a better bet (guess) with epoxy. Your
right, I don't know. That's why at todays prices I chose to go with
epoxy and increase my odds.

the original question was from a beginner who said the plan called for
polyester and was wondering if he should use epoxy.


You are the only one I'm hearing that says epoxy doubles the cost of a
small boat. In fact, so far the other builders seem to disagree. You
sure of that?

a quart of epoxy resin alone costs $32 without hardener or filler at
Candadian Tire. I'd probably only use a pint. however the most I've put
into one of my home made boats is $60. that was the expensive one. the
others were both under $25, including a tube of PL Preimuim at $3.99.

Lloyd Sumpter posted the same thing when he was costing out one of Gavin
Atkin's one sheet Mouse boats.

if you're a professional boatbuildier you have to include the cost of
labour, a boatbuilding yard, insuranace, tools, advertising, etc, etc,
which adds to the cost of the boat and lowers the proportional cost of the
adhesive. of course if all the customers want epxoy because they've been
conditioned by advertisign to expect epxoy, then one has to build with
epoxy. you're also likely to use epoxy to avoid any risk of lawsuits if
the customer runs his boat onto the rocks. since the customer pays for the
epxoy then why not use it? you get that mentality a lot with canoes.
ignorant people influenced by advertising want kevlar and expoy because
they think they can run survive bigger rapids, sigh.


I agree that epoxy has been overpromoted especially in the area of
encapsulating wood but we're not talking about that here. Allans
question was what to use to repair a boat of poly glass construction.
For that amount of material I believe epoxy wins hands down.

I've borrowed books and videos on boat repair from the public library
which adivse using polyester to repair polyester boats. I've used it
myself on the few small repairs I've done. If people are more comfortable
with epoxy I guess that's what they will use, if only for peace of mind. I
can't help wondering how much epoxy promotion has to do with peace
of mind. First you raise people's anxiety level, then you lower it again.
Advertising is beautiful.


Regards, Ron

I don't recieve e-mail at this address because of spam. E-mail me
at crtsrATmsnDOTcom.



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Rodney Myrvaagnes ) writes:

Your boat never gets wet above the waterline?

a boat with 4" draft and 6" freeboard paddled on small rivers and creeks.
look at the photos of the Delta boat on my website to see why the butts
never get wet. Well, okay, they get wet when it rains because the boat is
left outside upside down. I forgot about that.




Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

"Religious wisdom is to wisdom as military music is to music."


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"Lew Hodgett" ) writes:
Subject

Someone mentioned mixing 1/2 teaspoon amounts of resin.

Good grief, takes more resin than that to get a chip brush wet so you can go
to work.

That person must be in the micro mini model building business, not boat
building.

the more resin you put on a boat the heavier it is.
the heavier a boat is the slower it goes.
the heavier a boat is the less enjoyable it is to pick up and carry.

yep, I do mix resin in 1/2 teaspoons and spread it on plywood seams with a
toothpick to seal them, two coats. I also don't tape seams but just round
them off with sandpaper and spread on two coats of resin with the same
reusable toothpick to seal. Photos on my website.

when I want less than 1/2 teaspoon of resin I resort to epoxy which can be
mixed a drop of resin and a drop of hardner at at time.

I also use resins on things other than boats, like rust spots on the car.

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On 20 Jan 2004 15:50:22 GMT, (William R.
Watt) wrote:

P.C. Ford ) writes:

......and is not a marine glue.

"marine glue"? its water resistent, not water proof. the label on the tube
says not to use it in construction "below grade". however plastic resin
glue is also water resistent and not water proof

The fact of the matter is that the criterion that determines Mr. Watts
choice of materials is the horrible agony which he undergoes when he
extends his right arm in the direction of the pocket in which he keeps
his wallet.

If epoxy were a dollar cheaper than polyester, he would use it.
If Sikaflex were a dollar cheaper than "Liquid Nails", he would use
it.

He is interested in building a boat (or something that resembles a
boat) for the least possible amount. He has bragged about building a
boat for $17.35 CDN. Endurance, beauty and safety are a distant second
in his requirements.

I have done boat restoration for a living (such as it is) for about 30
years. About 95% of the time, my clients know very little about boats.
I do things which will extend the endurance, beauty and safety of the
boat and that my clients will never see or know about.

Of course, there are many levels of finish and workmanship. The paint
job and fits which are appropriate on a 19th century sailing canoe
would not be required or even appropriate on a wooden barge.

However, to cut all corners in order to build a boat for the least
possible investment as your main criterion is, (and I am not soley
criticizing Mr. Watt) frankly disgusting.

Very few non-professional boatbuilders actually have to or need to
build a boat. They do it as a hobby; it's something they do for
pleasure. I cannot fathom why someone would take pleasure in doing it
for absolutely least possible amount of money. I suppose it is another
example of the careless throwaway nature of what we call western
civilization.

But the important thing is that it just doesn't look like fun to me.
Can't understand this kind of reasoning.

Whenever we get to one of these "How low can he go?" discussions, i have
several reactions .

We try to argue that a particular material is substandard and will not perfom
reliably or for long. Deaf ears.

Occasionally we try humor, like the Crowbar FAQ . Duh.

Let me try another approach.
We have here a lot of people who know little about boats or their engineering.
THEY HAVE AN EASY ENOUGH TIME KILLING THEMSELVES IN BOATS WITHOUT THE HELP OF
AMATEUR YAHOOS ADVOCATING THE USE OF DOORSKINS, WALLPAPER PASTE, AND
INDOOR-RATED GLUE. IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE TO ADVOCATE TO THE USE OF MATERIALS
WHICH HAVE BEEN DEMONSTRATED TO BE INADEQUATE. PEOPLE CAN DIE WHEN THEIR
BOATS FALL APART.

End of rant.

Seasons greetings,
Jim




"P.C. Ford" wrote:

On 20 Jan 2004 15:50:22 GMT, (William R.
Watt) wrote:

P.C. Ford ) writes:

......and is not a marine glue.

"marine glue"? its water resistent, not water proof. the label on the tube
says not to use it in construction "below grade". however plastic resin
glue is also water resistent and not water proof

The fact of the matter is that the criterion that determines Mr. Watts
choice of materials is the horrible agony which he undergoes when he
extends his right arm in the direction of the pocket in which he keeps
his wallet.

If epoxy were a dollar cheaper than polyester, he would use it.
If Sikaflex were a dollar cheaper than "Liquid Nails", he would use
it.

He is interested in building a boat (or something that resembles a
boat) for the least possible amount. He has bragged about building a
boat for $17.35 CDN. Endurance, beauty and safety are a distant second
in his requirements.

I have done boat restoration for a living (such as it is) for about 30
years. About 95% of the time, my clients know very little about boats.
I do things which will extend the endurance, beauty and safety of the
boat and that my clients will never see or know about.

Of course, there are many levels of finish and workmanship. The paint
job and fits which are appropriate on a 19th century sailing canoe
would not be required or even appropriate on a wooden barge.

However, to cut all corners in order to build a boat for the least
possible investment as your main criterion is, (and I am not soley
criticizing Mr. Watt) frankly disgusting.

Very few non-professional boatbuilders actually have to or need to
build a boat. They do it as a hobby; it's something they do for
pleasure. I cannot fathom why someone would take pleasure in doing it
for absolutely least possible amount of money. I suppose it is another
example of the careless throwaway nature of what we call western
civilization.

But the important thing is that it just doesn't look like fun to me.
Can't understand this kind of reasoning.

"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...

Whenever we get to one of these "How low can he go?" discussions, i have
several reactions .

cut

PEOPLE CAN DIE WHEN THEIR BOATS FALL APART.

End of rant.
Seasons greetings,
Jim

Isn't this Natural Selection?
..

It is, but, unfortunately, those whose shoddy boats have not yet fallen apart
insist on claiming their little victories.

Peter HK wrote:

"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...

Whenever we get to one of these "How low can he go?" discussions, i have
several reactions .

cut

PEOPLE CAN DIE WHEN THEIR BOATS FALL APART.

End of rant.
Seasons greetings,
Jim

Isn't this Natural Selection?
.

(Sigh).

I don't recieve e-mail at this address because of spam. E-mail me
at crtsrATmsnDOTcom.