Jim Conlin wrote in message ...


Scotty says: First off let me state, I have never built such a
structure, and do not have any bigger boats, so take my advice for
what you
pay...

I'd cross-bolt the assembly with bronze or stainless threaded rod.
It'll help with the glue-up, too.


I dunno, never liked that idea. Always felt I would need to make the
whole part thicker to make up for the hole running all the way
through. The beauty of such a lay-up it the longitudal (sp?) strength
and a hole all the way through puts a lot of hurt to that aspect of
the
structure. I like to use staggered dowel pins. (This all assumes
correst application and preparation for/with epoxy. If other adhesive
is to be used, disregard anything I say here.) I tend to over engineer
everything (you should see my picnic tables) but I would get a cheap
dowling jig or use a drill press and set a pattern of alternating
pins. I would start with the end piece and drill three holes on the
inside. Next piece would get three holes facing the first, and four on
the other side. The piece facing that would get 4 and three,
alternating so as to take up the structural deficiencies of the
dowels. I would use pre-made and scored hardwood dowels. I don't think
you need a shaft all the way through if you use epoxy. If he is
worried he could always key in a cross support across the bottom. For
a part this size, I would want a finished part of 7/4. He may run a
router up the bottom and lay in a conduit for wiring, and shape the
part any way he pleases after it is cured.

A few more staggered thoughts. In the ascii I "drew" below, the pieces
seem wider than tall, this is not going to be the case of course. I
would suggest 4/4 thickness planks, cut into 2 inch strips... Mostly
aesthetics here, I used to make furniture so take my word for it.
Also, when applying the clamps, stagger them too, one on top, one on
the bottom and so on, or you will have a smiley part when you are
done. I don't see why you could not run a 1/4 inch deep channel with a
router under the part for wires, no deeper unless you run it near the
edge. If I were going to run it up the middle, I might cut three of my
strips 1/4 inch thicker and leave the extra on the bottom. After
cutting in the channel, round the edges in a smooth curve to match the
bottom. Aft of the area where the part meets the boat, you could just
flatten it out and drill a hole in any direction to route the wires
out of there. I will try again with that ascii, here is how the part
will look from the front:
____________________________________________
| |
|______________ ___ _____________|
\_____|000|_____/
Scotty



Backyard Renegade wrote:

(orbital) wrote in message . com...
I want to build an anchor platform that bolts to the bow and extends
off about 2 - 3 feet for safely deploying the anchor from. Usually
there is a roller installed through or on them.

Here is a company that is selling something similar to what I want to
build myself:

http://www.butlermarine.com/anchor%2...eakpulpit.html

They are usually constructed of layed up strips of teak.

Thanks!
Rob

Ahhh, I get it. Before I built boats, I built butcherblock dining
sets, counters, desks, etc, so this is right down my alley.
I would start by getting some 4 or 5 quarter (finished) material. Get
planks that are a little more than multiples of the thickness you want
plus saw curf, plus another 1/8 to leave room for finishing the top
and bottom later. For instance if wanted a 5 quarter finished product
you would look for boards where the width was a little more than a
multiple of 1 1/2 inches. Take your planks and cut out the 1 1/2 inch
strips and lay them out with the end grains direction turned opposite
each piece so the finished part will not warp in one direction or
another like this picture of the end grains of a correctly made
butcher block type table |////|\\\\|////| if that makes any sense.
Anyway, you may want to peg the parts to keep them from moving in the
clamps, these pegs are just for that and not necessarily structure so
use them sparingly timewise... When you have all the parts cut and
ready, get some epoxy and some cheap (relatively) pony type bar
clamps, available at home depot, get enough so you can put a clamp at
least every 9" to one foot. Using throw away brushes, slosh the part
faces with glue, and knock them together. When you have laid as many
as you wish or all, put some wax paper on the edges and some good
thick, straight planks on the outsides of the part and clamp it up. If
you don't use strong backing planks, use more clamps. Again, you may
make the part all at once, or break it up. The epoxy if used properly
will hold fine, especially if you peg it. As to the railing, either
steel which Glenn can address, or steam bent wood. For a first timer,
I might suggest looking at steel as there is some learning curve in
steambending wood, and we don't want to learn the hard way with such
an application. I am in the middle of fighting a leak in the basement
wall so I gotta go, Scotty from SmallBoats.com


To be more specific, I am looking for the proper technique for laying
up strips of teak in a way that will produce the strength required for
a pulpit.

I have been suggested that it is sufficient to just epoxy and clamp
the strips. I have also been told that I should screw and epox the
strips together.

Additionally, I would like to put a channel in the pulipit for wiring
in order to put the nav lights on it.

Well, it will not be the first time I sounded dumb, but what exactly
do you mean by "pulpit"?
Scotty





(orbital) wrote in message . com...
Hello,

I am looking into the option of custom building a teak anchor pulpit
for my 28 Cape Dory power boat. I was wondering if anyone could help
me with some insight into the proper technique for doing this.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

Rob

Did I specify, I would reccomend a 1 7/8 finished thickness, a little
thicker in the channel area if you choose that option.
Scotty

It was suggested to me originally to use stainless steel wood screws
countersunk into the strips to fasten them together. Is there a
benefit to using the hardwood dowels over screws? If screwing it up
was viable, I could use the dowelling technique for the most outside
pieces to give a finished look without plugs.

For the dowelling, how deep would you suggest I drill the holes for
the dowels if I am using 4/4 thickness strips? Also, what thickness
dowel would be appropriate given these dimensions. 2 inch thick
finished piece is about what I was shooting for.

For the wiring, I was hoping to run it inside the piece to avoid it
being visible from the outside. What I had in mind was routing a
channel on the opposing faces of 2 strips before laying them up
together. Each channel could be 1/8". when glued together, a 1/4 inch
channel exists down the center, with minimal cuts in any one piece. If
it is a structurally a concern, I could make the channel towards the
edge and then drill a hole accross very close to the front of the
piece. That way I would avoid the bulk of it.

I hope this makes sense.

This is what it would look like from the back with the channel going
up the left side.
_________________________________________
| | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | |
|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|


top view showiung the path of the wiring channel inside the center of
the piece:
___________________________________
/ \
/ __ \
/ light: / \ \
| --------------\__/ |
| | -------------- |
| || |
| || |
| || |
| || |
| || |
| || |
| || |


Thanks Again for all the advice! This is extremely helpfull!



Scotty says: First off let me state, I have never built such a
structure, and do not have any bigger boats, so take my advice for
what you
pay...

I'd cross-bolt the assembly with bronze or stainless threaded rod.
It'll help with the glue-up, too.


I dunno, never liked that idea. Always felt I would need to make the
whole part thicker to make up for the hole running all the way
through. The beauty of such a lay-up it the longitudal (sp?) strength
and a hole all the way through puts a lot of hurt to that aspect of
the
structure. I like to use staggered dowel pins. (This all assumes
correst application and preparation for/with epoxy. If other adhesive
is to be used, disregard anything I say here.) I tend to over engineer
everything (you should see my picnic tables) but I would get a cheap
dowling jig or use a drill press and set a pattern of alternating
pins. I would start with the end piece and drill three holes on the
inside. Next piece would get three holes facing the first, and four on
the other side. The piece facing that would get 4 and three,
alternating so as to take up the structural deficiencies of the
dowels. I would use pre-made and scored hardwood dowels. I don't think
you need a shaft all the way through if you use epoxy. If he is
worried he could always key in a cross support across the bottom. For
a part this size, I would want a finished part of 7/4. He may run a
router up the bottom and lay in a conduit for wiring, and shape the
part any way he pleases after it is cured.

A few more staggered thoughts. In the ascii I "drew" below, the pieces
seem wider than tall, this is not going to be the case of course. I
would suggest 4/4 thickness planks, cut into 2 inch strips... Mostly
aesthetics here, I used to make furniture so take my word for it.
Also, when applying the clamps, stagger them too, one on top, one on
the bottom and so on, or you will have a smiley part when you are
done. I don't see why you could not run a 1/4 inch deep channel with a
router under the part for wires, no deeper unless you run it near the
edge. If I were going to run it up the middle, I might cut three of my
strips 1/4 inch thicker and leave the extra on the bottom. After
cutting in the channel, round the edges in a smooth curve to match the
bottom. Aft of the area where the part meets the boat, you could just
flatten it out and drill a hole in any direction to route the wires
out of there. I will try again with that ascii, here is how the part
will look from the front:
____________________________________________
| |
|______________ ___ _____________|
\_____|000|_____/
Scotty



Backyard Renegade wrote:

(orbital) wrote in message . com...
I want to build an anchor platform that bolts to the bow and extends
off about 2 - 3 feet for safely deploying the anchor from. Usually
there is a roller installed through or on them.

Here is a company that is selling something similar to what I want to
build myself:

http://www.butlermarine.com/anchor%2...eakpulpit.html

They are usually constructed of layed up strips of teak.

Thanks!
Rob

Ahhh, I get it. Before I built boats, I built butcherblock dining
sets, counters, desks, etc, so this is right down my alley.
I would start by getting some 4 or 5 quarter (finished) material. Get
planks that are a little more than multiples of the thickness you want
plus saw curf, plus another 1/8 to leave room for finishing the top
and bottom later. For instance if wanted a 5 quarter finished product
you would look for boards where the width was a little more than a
multiple of 1 1/2 inches. Take your planks and cut out the 1 1/2 inch
strips and lay them out with the end grains direction turned opposite
each piece so the finished part will not warp in one direction or
another like this picture of the end grains of a correctly made
butcher block type table |////|\\\\|////| if that makes any sense.
Anyway, you may want to peg the parts to keep them from moving in the
clamps, these pegs are just for that and not necessarily structure so
use them sparingly timewise... When you have all the parts cut and
ready, get some epoxy and some cheap (relatively) pony type bar
clamps, available at home depot, get enough so you can put a clamp at
least every 9" to one foot. Using throw away brushes, slosh the part
faces with glue, and knock them together. When you have laid as many
as you wish or all, put some wax paper on the edges and some good
thick, straight planks on the outsides of the part and clamp it up. If
you don't use strong backing planks, use more clamps. Again, you may
make the part all at once, or break it up. The epoxy if used properly
will hold fine, especially if you peg it. As to the railing, either
steel which Glenn can address, or steam bent wood. For a first timer,
I might suggest looking at steel as there is some learning curve in
steambending wood, and we don't want to learn the hard way with such
an application. I am in the middle of fighting a leak in the basement
wall so I gotta go, Scotty from SmallBoats.com


To be more specific, I am looking for the proper technique for laying
up strips of teak in a way that will produce the strength required for
a pulpit.

I have been suggested that it is sufficient to just epoxy and clamp
the strips. I have also been told that I should screw and epox the
strips together.

Additionally, I would like to put a channel in the pulipit for wiring
in order to put the nav lights on it.

Well, it will not be the first time I sounded dumb, but what exactly
do you mean by "pulpit"?
Scotty





(orbital) wrote in message . com...
Hello,

I am looking into the option of custom building a teak anchor pulpit
for my 28 Cape Dory power boat. I was wondering if anyone could help
me with some insight into the proper technique for doing this.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

Rob

(Backyard Renegade) wrote in message After
cutting in the channel, round the edges in a smooth curve to match the
bottom. Aft of the area where the part meets the boat, you could just
flatten it out and drill a hole in any direction to route the wires
out of there. I will try again with that ascii, here is how the part
will look from the front:
____________________________________________
| |
|______________ ___ _____________|
\_____|000|_____/
Scotty



I have been rethinking this. I think if you bolt the part properly to
the boat, spreading the load, there is probably no reason to add the
thickness in the center as noted in the ascii above. The above
configuration would also create a lot of extra work anyway. Scotty

On 17 Dec 2003 19:53:52 -0800, (orbital) wrote:

Scotty, Thanks!

snip

Can you elaborate on the idea of pegging? I have an idea what you
mean, but am not sure exactly how this works. Do I make pegs from
dowel and drill corresponding sized holes into the strips? Is there a
technique for making sure they line up on the 2 strips? How many pegs
per strip should I use if the pulpit is to be 3 feet long? How deep
into the strips should I drill for the pegs?


snip

Rob

snip

My nephew is a cabinet maker and he uses a strip of peg-board as a jig
with a depth-stop collar on the drill bit. He just marks the holes he
wants to use on the jig. Small strips of wood on one side and both
ends are for alignment.
In your project you could lay the guide strips at the front and top
edges of your pulpit pieces. Drill, and on to the next piece of teak.
(If you did all the right sides first then flip the pieces and drill
the left sides, you won't have to flip the jig between work pieces.)

Mark E. Williams

Jumping in here ...

If you recall, Scotty was the guy suggesting pegs. He also suggested
using epoxy. So, I want to say a couple of things before people get too far
off track:

- The pegs are for alignment. You only need a couple per side of strip. If
the pulpit is long and the strips non-flat, then go with three so you can
get better alignment while gluing. Once glued, the pegs don't add much if
anything to the structure.

- If you're going to seal the pulpit up, and it's not hard if you use an
integral anchor roller that takes the anchor abuse instead of the pulpit
itself (see any commercial version), then epoxy is fine. If the wood is
going to be exposed and stay that way, then I'd consider using a different
solution (resorcinol glued teak? through-bolted teak? I don't know ..I'd
use epoxy as described).

Brian

--
My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass


"Maynard G. Krebbs" wrote in message
...
On 17 Dec 2003 19:53:52 -0800, (orbital) wrote:

Scotty, Thanks!

snip

Can you elaborate on the idea of pegging? I have an idea what you
mean, but am not sure exactly how this works. Do I make pegs from
dowel and drill corresponding sized holes into the strips? Is there a
technique for making sure they line up on the 2 strips? How many pegs
per strip should I use if the pulpit is to be 3 feet long? How deep
into the strips should I drill for the pegs?


snip

Rob

snip

My nephew is a cabinet maker and he uses a strip of peg-board as a jig
with a depth-stop collar on the drill bit. He just marks the holes he
wants to use on the jig. Small strips of wood on one side and both
ends are for alignment.
In your project you could lay the guide strips at the front and top
edges of your pulpit pieces. Drill, and on to the next piece of teak.
(If you did all the right sides first then flip the pieces and drill
the left sides, you won't have to flip the jig between work pieces.)

Mark E. Williams

PS: You can use a doweling jig that you buy from any wood worker's catalog.
They are not super cheap, but they do give good straight-in alignment and
you'll need that if you use pegs. A router and slotting bit can easily be
used to create short slots so you can use short splines for the same
purpose. In this case, make the splines 'barely fit' so they'll align the
wood. You'll have to experiment a little.

"Maynard G. Krebbs" wrote in message
...
On 17 Dec 2003 19:53:52 -0800, (orbital) wrote:

Scotty, Thanks!

snip

Can you elaborate on the idea of pegging? I have an idea what you
mean, but am not sure exactly how this works. Do I make pegs from
dowel and drill corresponding sized holes into the strips? Is there a
technique for making sure they line up on the 2 strips? How many pegs
per strip should I use if the pulpit is to be 3 feet long? How deep
into the strips should I drill for the pegs?


snip

Rob

snip

My nephew is a cabinet maker and he uses a strip of peg-board as a jig
with a depth-stop collar on the drill bit. He just marks the holes he
wants to use on the jig. Small strips of wood on one side and both
ends are for alignment.
In your project you could lay the guide strips at the front and top
edges of your pulpit pieces. Drill, and on to the next piece of teak.
(If you did all the right sides first then flip the pieces and drill
the left sides, you won't have to flip the jig between work pieces.)

Mark E. Williams

PPS: Personally, I'd skip dowels and splines. Just buy a nice flat MDF
board, put it on a level table, and glue up your strips. Clamp a stiff (not
MDF) board over the top of the strips to hold them flat. In strip-built
boards, always expect to do some clean up and a little planing afterwards.
I've done this by hand with a sharp low-angle block plane, followed by a
220-grit sanding with a good random orbital sander, and it works fine
....very easy.

Brian

--
My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass


"Maynard G. Krebbs" wrote in message
...
On 17 Dec 2003 19:53:52 -0800, (orbital) wrote:

Scotty, Thanks!

snip

Can you elaborate on the idea of pegging? I have an idea what you
mean, but am not sure exactly how this works. Do I make pegs from
dowel and drill corresponding sized holes into the strips? Is there a
technique for making sure they line up on the 2 strips? How many pegs
per strip should I use if the pulpit is to be 3 feet long? How deep
into the strips should I drill for the pegs?


snip

Rob

snip

My nephew is a cabinet maker and he uses a strip of peg-board as a jig
with a depth-stop collar on the drill bit. He just marks the holes he
wants to use on the jig. Small strips of wood on one side and both
ends are for alignment.
In your project you could lay the guide strips at the front and top
edges of your pulpit pieces. Drill, and on to the next piece of teak.
(If you did all the right sides first then flip the pieces and drill
the left sides, you won't have to flip the jig between work pieces.)

Mark E. Williams

(orbital) wrote in message . com...
It was suggested to me originally to use stainless steel wood screws
countersunk into the strips to fasten them together. Is there a
benefit to using the hardwood dowels over screws? If screwing it up
was viable, I could use the dowelling technique for the most outside
pieces to give a finished look without plugs.

I am still waiting to see if someone else has comments as to weather
pegs and epoxy are suitable for this, I still say epoxy will do the
trick if the part is mounted and supported properly. Again, if someone
out there knows different, please speak up so this guy does not get
real wet and come find me! I know someone suggested going all the way
through with rods, but this really has an effect on the strength of
the final part.

For the dowelling, how deep would you suggest I drill the holes for
the dowels if I am using 4/4 thickness strips? Also, what thickness
dowel would be appropriate given these dimensions. 2 inch thick
finished piece is about what I was shooting for.

I would use store bought, scored pegs so you do not have any glue
pressure buildup behind the pegs under pressure. You could drill
probably 7/8" into each piece and use 1 1/2" long by 3/8 thick
hardwood pegs. Remember, the holes are offset, so it is not like
drilling a hole all the way through the part.


For the wiring, I was hoping to run it inside the piece to avoid it
being visible from the outside. What I had in mind was routing a
channel on the opposing faces of 2 strips before laying them up
together. Each channel could be 1/8". when glued together, a 1/4 inch
channel exists down the center, with minimal cuts in any one piece. If
it is a structurally a concern, I could make the channel towards the
edge and then drill a hole accross very close to the front of the
piece. That way I would avoid the bulk of it.

I hope this makes sense.

It does. However, how about a compromise? You build the part full
thickness and then dado a 1" wide by say, 3/16" deep trough down the
middle, on the underside of the part. Centered in that trough, dado
another trough wide and deep enough for your wires. Set in the wires
and fasten a 3/16" by 1" "cover" into the initial trough, flush with
the bottom. It would be easier than the layup schedual you have in
mind for sure. I don't like the odds, clamping the parts the way you
have suggested, leaving a blind conduit in the part. I think my way
would be stronger too, as well as leaving access to the wires.
Scotty, recovering ascii junkie...

"Brian D" wrote in message news:jSEEb.401321$Dw6.1249548@attbi_s02...
Jumping in here ...

If you recall, Scotty was the guy suggesting pegs. He also suggested
using epoxy. So, I want to say a couple of things before people get too far
off track:

- The pegs are for alignment. You only need a couple per side of strip. If
the pulpit is long and the strips non-flat, then go with three so you can
get better alignment while gluing. Once glued, the pegs don't add much if
anything to the structure.


This is correct and I do suggest a cheap dowling jig from Sears or
such, this will allow you to use line things up much easier but like
brian said, they are not there for structure. Use them sparingly as I
noted in an earlier post, to save time.
Scotty