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Old December 8th 09, 03:03 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I
want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass
parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I
don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass
tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies
bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of
the first resin?

Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old
bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is
recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to
this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot!

Thanks,
Mike

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Old December 8th 09, 08:18 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

On Dec 8, 9:03*am, mx wrote:
Will all epoxies bond to one another? *I have some West GFlex, which I
want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass
parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I
don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass
tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. *Will the epoxies
bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of
the first resin?

Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? *I have an old
bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is
recommended as a thickener. * I feel like I used to know the answer to
this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot!

Thanks,
Mike


Colloidal silica and microballoons aren't the same thing. Colloidal
silica will be harder to sand when cured. Microballoons are a lighter
filler.

As long as you give the first application of epoxy a wipe and a bit of
a sanding before you lay on the glass tape, it will bond.

-m
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Old December 8th 09, 08:25 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

On Dec 8, 12:18*pm, max camirand wrote:
On Dec 8, 9:03*am, mx wrote:


Thanks,
Mike


Colloidal silica and microballoons aren't the same thing. Colloidal
silica will be harder to sand when cured. Microballoons are a lighter
filler.


presumably microballons are hollow, so the fillet is weaker with them?

As long as you give the first application of epoxy a wipe and a bit of
a sanding before you lay on the glass tape, it will bond.

It's chilly here this week (Seattle) and my little garage heater is
overmatched, so after 24 hours, the first pour will probably be just
hard enough to remove the clamps, so still pretty green. I can
probably give it a solvent wipe, but not sure about sanding at that
stage.
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Old December 8th 09, 08:28 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?


wrote:

Will all epoxies bond to one another?


There are two (2) types of bonding, chemical and mechanical.

Chemical bonding occurs when a follow up layer of resin is applied
over an epoxy surface that has not totally cured.

Mechanical bonding occurs when a layer of epoxy is applied over a
totally cured epoxy surface.

You appear to be describing old work, thus mechanical bonding will
apply.

A small right angle sander with 24 grit discs will be your friend for
this job.

BTDT, forget the T-Shirt.

Good luck.

BTW, micro-balloons as a filler will do the job, especially when you
lay a piece of glass tape over it.

Lew



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Old December 8th 09, 09:51 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

On Dec 8, 12:28*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
wrote:
Will all epoxies bond to one another?


There are two (2) types of bonding, chemical and mechanical.

Chemical bonding occurs when a follow up layer of resin is applied
over an epoxy surface that has not totally cured.

Mechanical bonding occurs when a layer of epoxy is applied over a
totally cured epoxy surface.

You appear to be describing old work, thus mechanical bonding will
apply.


The premade glass parts are old (one is "new" but was made at least 6
months ago). Their surfaces to be bonded are fairly rough, so should
give a half-way decent mechanical bond. The glass tape is to insure
that the load is carried out over a large area of the old hull, since
its layup is not terribly thick.

But since I'm considering using 2 different epoxies for the fillet and
new cloth reinforcement, i was uncertain if they might be incompatible
in forming chemical bonds between the two new layers, or if it could
be assumed that any two common epoxies would stick to each other
chemically if the first layer is only partially cured.

Thanks,
Mike


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Old December 8th 09, 10:21 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

mx wrote:
Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I
want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass
parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I
don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass
tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies
bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of
the first resin?

Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old
bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is
recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to
this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot!

Thanks,
Mike

You have gotten good answers, but one thing was not covered.
Most Epoxies blush to some extent.
If you don't sand both parts, then at least wash them well. You can
actually use a detergent and clean water rinse.
Matt Colie
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Old December 9th 09, 02:01 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:51:47 -0800 (PST), mx wrote:

On Dec 8, 12:28*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
wrote:
Will all epoxies bond to one another?


There are two (2) types of bonding, chemical and mechanical.

Chemical bonding occurs when a follow up layer of resin is applied
over an epoxy surface that has not totally cured.

Mechanical bonding occurs when a layer of epoxy is applied over a
totally cured epoxy surface.

You appear to be describing old work, thus mechanical bonding will
apply.


The premade glass parts are old (one is "new" but was made at least 6
months ago). Their surfaces to be bonded are fairly rough, so should
give a half-way decent mechanical bond. The glass tape is to insure
that the load is carried out over a large area of the old hull, since
its layup is not terribly thick.

But since I'm considering using 2 different epoxies for the fillet and
new cloth reinforcement, i was uncertain if they might be incompatible
in forming chemical bonds between the two new layers, or if it could
be assumed that any two common epoxies would stick to each other
chemically if the first layer is only partially cured.

Thanks,
Mike


Essentially "epoxy" is the same stuff, no matter where it comes from.
Certainly various sellers modify their product for some specific
purpose but basically they are all epoxy. So they will stick to each
other. Sand the old layer with a coarse sanding disk, wipe with
acetone and have at it.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
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Old December 9th 09, 02:37 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

"mx" wrote in message
...
Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I
want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass
parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I
don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass
tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies
bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of
the first resin?

Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old
bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is
recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to
this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot!


There are not many things epoxy doesn't stick to.



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Old December 9th 09, 02:41 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

Bob La Londe wrote:
"mx" wrote in message
...
Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I
want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass
parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I
don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass
tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies
bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of
the first resin?

Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old
bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is
recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to
this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot!


There are not many things epoxy doesn't stick to.




Most poly-type plastics, duct tape, waxed paper, Elmer's glue, White Rain Hair
spray (PVA), etc.

Things I often use as mold release agents.
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Old December 9th 09, 03:09 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Bob La Londe wrote:
"mx" wrote in message
...
Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I
want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass
parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I
don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass
tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies
bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of
the first resin?

Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old
bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is
recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to
this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot!


There are not many things epoxy doesn't stick to.




Most poly-type plastics, duct tape, waxed paper, Elmer's glue, White Rain
Hair spray (PVA), etc.

Things I often use as mold release agents.


I'll have to remember that hair spray one.



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