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Old December 10th 09, 06:30 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?


"Wayne.B" wrote:

I hope you're not using the bondo on a boat. I've seen some
disasters
from that. Epoxy and micro baloons are *much* better for fairing.


Especially when a 30 Lb (4 cubic ft) bag of micro-balloons is less
than $25.

Lew




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Old December 10th 09, 07:07 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:37:23 -0600, cavelamb
wrote:

I mix in paper bowls - and paper plates for Bondo.


I hope you're not using the bondo on a boat. I've seen some disasters
from that. Epoxy and micro baloons are *much* better for fairing.



No, not for parts boat or aircraft themselves.
But I do use it for tooling.
  #23   Report Post  
Old December 10th 09, 05:26 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,921
Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

In article ,
says...

I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
mx wrote:
Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I
want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass
parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I
don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass
tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies
bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of
the first resin?

Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old
bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is
recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to
this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot!

Thanks,
Mike

epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch
out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention)
sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect
the bond between layers.

fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow
spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens
the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy

paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc.
www.epoxyproducts.com and
www.epoxyusa.com


Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing,
Silica is more for structural work?

SmallBoats.com


Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass.
Glass should not be used with Polyester resin.
But either can be used with epoxy.

I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent
sagging on vertical surfaces.

Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed.
Or even cotton balls sometimes.

Or wood flour, if you are working with wood.

Then there are the exotic fillers.
Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc.


When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always tried to
use as little as possible to get the job done though. It is hard to sand
once finished too. When I needed more strength in a bond, I would layer
in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into strands and mix it in. I
don't remember ever using the balloons.

Warning, tangent below

When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I would
pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood flower. The pine
would end up about the color of commercial peanut butter and worked for
corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn a rich brown with the
epoxy. You can also mix the two to match colors. Note, your own homemade
sawdust is not the same as wood flower, it can be used, but it is not as
smooth. I suppose the stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller
might be good too.

SB
  #24   Report Post  
Old December 10th 09, 08:18 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Dec 2006
Posts: 796
Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
mx wrote:
Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I
want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass
parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I
don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass
tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies
bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of
the first resin?

Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old
bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is
recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to
this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot!

Thanks,
Mike

epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch
out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention)
sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect
the bond between layers.

fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow
spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens
the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy

paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc.
www.epoxyproducts.com and
www.epoxyusa.com
Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing,
Silica is more for structural work?

SmallBoats.com

Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass.
Glass should not be used with Polyester resin.
But either can be used with epoxy.

I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent
sagging on vertical surfaces.

Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed.
Or even cotton balls sometimes.

Or wood flour, if you are working with wood.

Then there are the exotic fillers.
Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc.


When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always tried to
use as little as possible to get the job done though. It is hard to sand
once finished too. When I needed more strength in a bond, I would layer
in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into strands and mix it in. I
don't remember ever using the balloons.

Warning, tangent below

When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I would
pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood flower. The pine
would end up about the color of commercial peanut butter and worked for
corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn a rich brown with the
epoxy. You can also mix the two to match colors. Note, your own homemade
sawdust is not the same as wood flower, it can be used, but it is not as
smooth. I suppose the stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller
might be good too.

SB



I had some really old West resin.
The catalyst had turned really dark.
It still worked fine, just made a beautiful darker finish.

another tangent:

I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF -
ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather
than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish.

The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of
resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious.

But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish.
And way tougher than varnish.


  #25   Report Post  
Old December 11th 09, 12:27 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,921
Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

In article ,
says...

I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
mx wrote:
Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I
want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass
parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I
don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass
tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies
bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of
the first resin?

Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old
bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is
recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to
this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot!

Thanks,
Mike

epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch
out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention)
sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect
the bond between layers.

fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow
spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens
the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy

paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc.
www.epoxyproducts.com and
www.epoxyusa.com
Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing,
Silica is more for structural work?

SmallBoats.com
Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass.
Glass should not be used with Polyester resin.
But either can be used with epoxy.

I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent
sagging on vertical surfaces.

Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed.
Or even cotton balls sometimes.

Or wood flour, if you are working with wood.

Then there are the exotic fillers.
Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc.


When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always tried to
use as little as possible to get the job done though. It is hard to sand
once finished too. When I needed more strength in a bond, I would layer
in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into strands and mix it in. I
don't remember ever using the balloons.

Warning, tangent below

When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I would
pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood flower. The pine
would end up about the color of commercial peanut butter and worked for
corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn a rich brown with the
epoxy. You can also mix the two to match colors. Note, your own homemade
sawdust is not the same as wood flower, it can be used, but it is not as
smooth. I suppose the stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller
might be good too.

SB



I had some really old West resin.
The catalyst had turned really dark.
It still worked fine, just made a beautiful darker finish.

another tangent:

I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF -
ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather
than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish.

The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of
resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious.

But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish.
And way tougher than varnish.


I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down
epoxy pretty quickly.


  #26   Report Post  
Old December 11th 09, 12:48 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Dec 2008
Posts: 576
Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:18:37 -0600, cavelamb
wrote:

A bunch snipped

another tangent:

I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF -
ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather
than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish.

The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of
resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious.

But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish.
And way tougher than varnish.

However... you really need to put some additional finish on top of
that epoxy if it is on an outside surface as bare epoxy does degrade
when exposed to UV.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
  #27   Report Post  
Old December 11th 09, 08:22 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Dec 2006
Posts: 796
Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
mx wrote:
Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I
want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass
parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I
don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass
tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies
bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of
the first resin?

Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old
bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is
recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to
this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot!

Thanks,
Mike

epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch
out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention)
sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect
the bond between layers.

fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow
spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens
the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy

paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc.
www.epoxyproducts.com and
www.epoxyusa.com
Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing,
Silica is more for structural work?

SmallBoats.com
Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass.
Glass should not be used with Polyester resin.
But either can be used with epoxy.

I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent
sagging on vertical surfaces.

Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed.
Or even cotton balls sometimes.

Or wood flour, if you are working with wood.

Then there are the exotic fillers.
Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc.
When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always tried to
use as little as possible to get the job done though. It is hard to sand
once finished too. When I needed more strength in a bond, I would layer
in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into strands and mix it in. I
don't remember ever using the balloons.

Warning, tangent below

When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I would
pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood flower. The pine
would end up about the color of commercial peanut butter and worked for
corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn a rich brown with the
epoxy. You can also mix the two to match colors. Note, your own homemade
sawdust is not the same as wood flower, it can be used, but it is not as
smooth. I suppose the stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller
might be good too.

SB


I had some really old West resin.
The catalyst had turned really dark.
It still worked fine, just made a beautiful darker finish.

another tangent:

I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF -
ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather
than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish.

The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of
resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious.

But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish.
And way tougher than varnish.


I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down
epoxy pretty quickly.


sorry.
I should have added that I only use this for interior finished.
You are absolutely right.
  #28   Report Post  
Old December 11th 09, 03:27 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jun 2007
Posts: 41
Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

cavelamb wrote:
I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
mx wrote:
Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex,
which I
want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit
fiberglass
parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I
think, I
don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with
glass
tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies
bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few
days of
the first resin?

Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an
old
bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal
silica is
recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the
answer to
this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot!

Thanks,
Mike

epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy,
but watch out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones
you mention)
sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush
can affect the bond between layers.

fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny
hollow spheres, very light and fine (comes in different
densities) - thickens the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings
in the epoxy

paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc.
www.epoxyproducts.com and www.epoxyusa.com
Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and
fairing, Silica is more for structural work?

SmallBoats.com
Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass.
Glass should not be used with Polyester resin.
But either can be used with epoxy.

I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent
sagging on vertical surfaces.

Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as
needed.
Or even cotton balls sometimes.

Or wood flour, if you are working with wood.

Then there are the exotic fillers.
Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc.
When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always
tried to use as little as possible to get the job done though. It
is hard to sand once finished too. When I needed more strength in a
bond, I would layer in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into
strands and mix it in. I don't remember ever using the balloons.

Warning, tangent below

When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I
would pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood
flower. The pine would end up about the color of commercial peanut
butter and worked for corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn
a rich brown with the epoxy. You can also mix the two to match
colors. Note, your own homemade sawdust is not the same as wood
flower, it can be used, but it is not as smooth. I suppose the
stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller might be good too.

SB

I had some really old West resin.
The catalyst had turned really dark.
It still worked fine, just made a beautiful darker finish.

another tangent:

I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF -
ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather
than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish.

The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of
resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious.

But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty
finish.
And way tougher than varnish.


I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down
epoxy pretty quickly.


NOTE THAT 99.9% OF ANY CLEAR COAT PRODUCT HAS LITTLE OR NO UV PROTECTION
(UV BLOCKERS OR UV ABSORBERS) IN THEM.
PAUL OMAN progressive epoxy polymers inc

sorry.
I should have added that I only use this for interior finished.
You are absolutely right.

  #29   Report Post  
Old December 11th 09, 03:45 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Dec 2006
Posts: 796
Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

Paul Oman wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
I am Tosk wrote:



I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down
epoxy pretty quickly.


NOTE THAT 99.9% OF ANY CLEAR COAT PRODUCT HAS LITTLE OR NO UV PROTECTION
(UV BLOCKERS OR UV ABSORBERS) IN THEM.
PAUL OMAN progressive epoxy polymers inc

sorry.
I should have added that I only use this for interior finished.
You are absolutely right.


Hi Paul,

I think you could have put a line is and nobody would have yelled Spam.
After all, you were spot on target.

So - Google to the rescue...

I was impressed with all the info on the help page.
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/help.html

Might have to try some of that Basic No Blush stuff.


Richard
  #30   Report Post  
Old December 11th 09, 05:06 PM posted to rec.boats.building
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jun 2007
Posts: 41
Default do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?

cavelamb wrote:
Paul Oman wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
I am Tosk wrote:



I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks
down epoxy pretty quickly.


NOTE THAT 99.9% OF ANY CLEAR COAT PRODUCT HAS LITTLE OR NO UV
PROTECTION (UV BLOCKERS OR UV ABSORBERS) IN THEM.
PAUL OMAN progressive epoxy polymers inc

sorry.
I should have added that I only use this for interior finished.
You are absolutely right.


Hi Paul,

I think you could have put a line is and nobody would have yelled Spam.
After all, you were spot on target.

So - Google to the rescue...

I was impressed with all the info on the help page.
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/help.html

Might have to try some of that Basic No Blush stuff.


Richard

Hope so. The help.html and map.html put structure into the 180 page
epoxy site. 90% of the pages are info and not sales related -- paul
(merry christmas to everyone reading this!)

--



============================================
PAUL OMAN Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc.
Incorporated -- State of New Hampshire
Office hrs 10:30-3PM Mon-Thur closed Fridays
603-435-7199
www.epoxyproducts.com --- www.epoxyUSA.com
VISA//MC/Discover/AMEX/Paypal
============================================

DISCLAIMER: Any suggestions/procedures offered
are given AS-IS without any warranty. Use
of website/email/telephone suggestions and/or
procedures is at your sole cost and risk. Buyer
is solely responsible for testing the suitability
of Product and determining quantities needed.
Buyer is also solely responsible for compliance
with local VOC (Volatile Organic Compound)
regulations controlling the purchase and use
of Product at buyer's location. Disclaimers,
legal notices, health warning, etc.,
are found at www.epoxyproducts.com/legal.html.
Use of website, ordering products online
or by telephone/fax,and use of products shall
constitute acceptance and knowledge of
those terms and conditions.


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