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#21
posted to rec.boats.building
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do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
"Wayne.B" wrote: I hope you're not using the bondo on a boat. I've seen some disasters from that. Epoxy and micro baloons are *much* better for fairing. Especially when a 30 Lb (4 cubic ft) bag of micro-balloons is less than $25. Lew |
#22
posted to rec.boats.building
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do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:37:23 -0600, cavelamb wrote: I mix in paper bowls - and paper plates for Bondo. I hope you're not using the bondo on a boat. I've seen some disasters from that. Epoxy and micro baloons are *much* better for fairing. No, not for parts boat or aircraft themselves. But I do use it for tooling. |
#24
posted to rec.boats.building
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do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
I am Tosk wrote:
In article , says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... mx wrote: Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention) sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect the bond between layers. fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc. www.epoxyproducts.com and www.epoxyusa.com Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing, Silica is more for structural work? SmallBoats.com Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass. Glass should not be used with Polyester resin. But either can be used with epoxy. I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent sagging on vertical surfaces. Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed. Or even cotton balls sometimes. Or wood flour, if you are working with wood. Then there are the exotic fillers. Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc. When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always tried to use as little as possible to get the job done though. It is hard to sand once finished too. When I needed more strength in a bond, I would layer in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into strands and mix it in. I don't remember ever using the balloons. Warning, tangent below When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I would pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood flower. The pine would end up about the color of commercial peanut butter and worked for corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn a rich brown with the epoxy. You can also mix the two to match colors. Note, your own homemade sawdust is not the same as wood flower, it can be used, but it is not as smooth. I suppose the stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller might be good too. SB I had some really old West resin. The catalyst had turned really dark. It still worked fine, just made a beautiful darker finish. another tangent: I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF - ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish. The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious. But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish. And way tougher than varnish. |
#25
posted to rec.boats.building
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do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
In article ,
says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... mx wrote: Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention) sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect the bond between layers. fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc. www.epoxyproducts.com and www.epoxyusa.com Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing, Silica is more for structural work? SmallBoats.com Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass. Glass should not be used with Polyester resin. But either can be used with epoxy. I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent sagging on vertical surfaces. Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed. Or even cotton balls sometimes. Or wood flour, if you are working with wood. Then there are the exotic fillers. Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc. When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always tried to use as little as possible to get the job done though. It is hard to sand once finished too. When I needed more strength in a bond, I would layer in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into strands and mix it in. I don't remember ever using the balloons. Warning, tangent below When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I would pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood flower. The pine would end up about the color of commercial peanut butter and worked for corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn a rich brown with the epoxy. You can also mix the two to match colors. Note, your own homemade sawdust is not the same as wood flower, it can be used, but it is not as smooth. I suppose the stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller might be good too. SB I had some really old West resin. The catalyst had turned really dark. It still worked fine, just made a beautiful darker finish. another tangent: I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF - ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish. The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious. But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish. And way tougher than varnish. I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down epoxy pretty quickly. |
#26
posted to rec.boats.building
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do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:18:37 -0600, cavelamb
wrote: A bunch snipped another tangent: I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF - ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish. The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious. But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish. And way tougher than varnish. However... you really need to put some additional finish on top of that epoxy if it is on an outside surface as bare epoxy does degrade when exposed to UV. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
#27
posted to rec.boats.building
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do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
I am Tosk wrote:
In article , says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... mx wrote: Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention) sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect the bond between layers. fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc. www.epoxyproducts.com and www.epoxyusa.com Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing, Silica is more for structural work? SmallBoats.com Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass. Glass should not be used with Polyester resin. But either can be used with epoxy. I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent sagging on vertical surfaces. Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed. Or even cotton balls sometimes. Or wood flour, if you are working with wood. Then there are the exotic fillers. Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc. When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always tried to use as little as possible to get the job done though. It is hard to sand once finished too. When I needed more strength in a bond, I would layer in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into strands and mix it in. I don't remember ever using the balloons. Warning, tangent below When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I would pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood flower. The pine would end up about the color of commercial peanut butter and worked for corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn a rich brown with the epoxy. You can also mix the two to match colors. Note, your own homemade sawdust is not the same as wood flower, it can be used, but it is not as smooth. I suppose the stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller might be good too. SB I had some really old West resin. The catalyst had turned really dark. It still worked fine, just made a beautiful darker finish. another tangent: I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF - ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish. The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious. But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish. And way tougher than varnish. I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down epoxy pretty quickly. sorry. I should have added that I only use this for interior finished. You are absolutely right. |
#28
posted to rec.boats.building
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do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
cavelamb wrote:
I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... mx wrote: Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention) sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect the bond between layers. fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc. www.epoxyproducts.com and www.epoxyusa.com Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing, Silica is more for structural work? SmallBoats.com Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass. Glass should not be used with Polyester resin. But either can be used with epoxy. I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent sagging on vertical surfaces. Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed. Or even cotton balls sometimes. Or wood flour, if you are working with wood. Then there are the exotic fillers. Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc. When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always tried to use as little as possible to get the job done though. It is hard to sand once finished too. When I needed more strength in a bond, I would layer in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into strands and mix it in. I don't remember ever using the balloons. Warning, tangent below When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I would pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood flower. The pine would end up about the color of commercial peanut butter and worked for corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn a rich brown with the epoxy. You can also mix the two to match colors. Note, your own homemade sawdust is not the same as wood flower, it can be used, but it is not as smooth. I suppose the stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller might be good too. SB I had some really old West resin. The catalyst had turned really dark. It still worked fine, just made a beautiful darker finish. another tangent: I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF - ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish. The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious. But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish. And way tougher than varnish. I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down epoxy pretty quickly. NOTE THAT 99.9% OF ANY CLEAR COAT PRODUCT HAS LITTLE OR NO UV PROTECTION (UV BLOCKERS OR UV ABSORBERS) IN THEM. PAUL OMAN progressive epoxy polymers inc sorry. I should have added that I only use this for interior finished. You are absolutely right. |
#29
posted to rec.boats.building
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do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
Paul Oman wrote:
cavelamb wrote: I am Tosk wrote: I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down epoxy pretty quickly. NOTE THAT 99.9% OF ANY CLEAR COAT PRODUCT HAS LITTLE OR NO UV PROTECTION (UV BLOCKERS OR UV ABSORBERS) IN THEM. PAUL OMAN progressive epoxy polymers inc sorry. I should have added that I only use this for interior finished. You are absolutely right. Hi Paul, I think you could have put a line is and nobody would have yelled Spam. After all, you were spot on target. So - Google to the rescue... I was impressed with all the info on the help page. http://www.epoxyproducts.com/help.html Might have to try some of that Basic No Blush stuff. Richard |
#30
posted to rec.boats.building
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do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
cavelamb wrote:
Paul Oman wrote: cavelamb wrote: I am Tosk wrote: I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down epoxy pretty quickly. NOTE THAT 99.9% OF ANY CLEAR COAT PRODUCT HAS LITTLE OR NO UV PROTECTION (UV BLOCKERS OR UV ABSORBERS) IN THEM. PAUL OMAN progressive epoxy polymers inc sorry. I should have added that I only use this for interior finished. You are absolutely right. Hi Paul, I think you could have put a line is and nobody would have yelled Spam. After all, you were spot on target. So - Google to the rescue... I was impressed with all the info on the help page. http://www.epoxyproducts.com/help.html Might have to try some of that Basic No Blush stuff. Richard Hope so. The help.html and map.html put structure into the 180 page epoxy site. 90% of the pages are info and not sales related -- paul (merry christmas to everyone reading this!) -- ============================================ PAUL OMAN Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. Incorporated -- State of New Hampshire Office hrs 10:30-3PM Mon-Thur closed Fridays 603-435-7199 www.epoxyproducts.com --- www.epoxyUSA.com VISA//MC/Discover/AMEX/Paypal ============================================ DISCLAIMER: Any suggestions/procedures offered are given AS-IS without any warranty. Use of website/email/telephone suggestions and/or procedures is at your sole cost and risk. Buyer is solely responsible for testing the suitability of Product and determining quantities needed. Buyer is also solely responsible for compliance with local VOC (Volatile Organic Compound) regulations controlling the purchase and use of Product at buyer's location. Disclaimers, legal notices, health warning, etc., are found at www.epoxyproducts.com/legal.html. Use of website, ordering products online or by telephone/fax,and use of products shall constitute acceptance and knowledge of those terms and conditions. |
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