Duty, Honor, Safety
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...

Don't know what it's like in Texas, but here the hbs are very protective
of
their marina and the people, commercial or pleasure-boaters. Most of the
people know the hb and given the prices of the slips, they would prefer
to
have the sailboats than the fishing boats. If the hb did nothing, they
could
be liable. Can't help it if your complaints are laughed at, however.

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"j" ganz - Hide quoted text -

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We don't have no glorified parking lot cop type hb here.

If I had a crew member injured.. I'd track down the boat and confront
the skipper directly, then call the USCG. We do not need no stinking
complaint dept, or Capt. Kangaroo parking lot cops. You're soooo gay
Gaynz..

Joe

So, Joe finally does a melt down. Can't actually present any facts, so he
attacks me personally. Sure says a lot about you.




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Duty, Honor, Safety
 

On Aug 16, 11:55 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

oups.com...







Don't know what it's like in Texas, but here the hbs are very protective
of
their marina and the people, commercial or pleasure-boaters. Most of the
people know the hb and given the prices of the slips, they would prefer
to
have the sailboats than the fishing boats. If the hb did nothing, they
could
be liable. Can't help it if your complaints are laughed at, however.

--
"j" ganz -Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We don't have no glorified parking lot cop type hb here.

If I had a crew member injured.. I'd track down the boat and confront
the skipper directly, then call the USCG. We do not need no stinking
complaint dept, or Capt. Kangaroo parking lot cops. You're soooo gay
Gaynz..

Joe

So, Joe finally does a melt down. Can't actually present any facts, so he
attacks me personally. Sure says a lot about you.

--
"j" ganz - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I presented the facts.

Scout said a crew member was injured by a wake.

You said smart Captain's will lie.
I said they will not

You said inform the Harbor Master.
I said you should consult your CFR, and notify the proper officals.

You said the CG will ignore a wake induced injury unless they
witnessed it.
I say they will investagate.

You said Scout lost creadibility by informing others on a sailng NG.
I say he did not.

Who's right?

Joe

Duty, Honor, Safety
 

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 16, 11:55 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

oups.com...







Don't know what it's like in Texas, but here the hbs are very
protective
of
their marina and the people, commercial or pleasure-boaters. Most of
the
people know the hb and given the prices of the slips, they would
prefer
to
have the sailboats than the fishing boats. If the hb did nothing, they
could
be liable. Can't help it if your complaints are laughed at, however.

--
"j" ganz -Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We don't have no glorified parking lot cop type hb here.

If I had a crew member injured.. I'd track down the boat and confront
the skipper directly, then call the USCG. We do not need no stinking
complaint dept, or Capt. Kangaroo parking lot cops. You're soooo gay
Gaynz..

Joe

So, Joe finally does a melt down. Can't actually present any facts, so he
attacks me personally. Sure says a lot about you.

--
"j" ganz - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I presented the facts.

No you didn't.


Scout said a crew member was injured by a wake.

No he didn't.


You said smart Captain's will lie.
I said they will not

This is your opinion vs. my opinion. Nothing you've said has convinced me
that you're right.


You said inform the Harbor Master.
I said you should consult your CFR, and notify the proper officals.

I said that the HB would be able to deal with this quickly and efficiently.


You said the CG will ignore a wake induced injury unless they
witnessed it.

No I didn't.

I say they will investagate.

Your opinion.


You said Scout lost creadibility by informing others on a sailng NG.
I say he did not.

I changed my mind, given who it was, which was unclear originally.

Who's right?


Not you in my opinion, especially after the personal attack.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Duty, Honor, Safety
 

Jon and Joe - I want to thank you and others here for giving me some
constructive criticism and sound advice for dealing with this event.

I posted my original message without much introduction, which may have been
a mistake. I had hoped to get some honest feedback without having to type a
long narrative, so I copied and pasted the letter that I sent to the
captains of the boat in question. I probably should have edited it and sent
it in a discussion format for Dave's sake. Had I done so, perhaps I would
not have given him what he apparently feels is justification to lash out
with suspicion, ignorance, and insults. I'm not one to make up a story just
to stir trouble; the captain of that ship endangered my crew and greatly
alarmed us; I felt that no undue hardship would be caused him by the group's
discussion of the rights and responsibilities of large, fast moving boats in
narrow channels. Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the name of the boat,
but at the time I wrote that piece I didn't exactly feel that I owed them
any courtesies.

In addition to that, I am writing in on the heels of Doug, who recently
stated that New Jersey boaters appear to be the most obnoxious of all. I
felt I could offer both an anecdotal passage in support of his observations,
and a request for advice - all with one easy post.

I have not heard back from the company and I don't expect that I will unless
I push this further. I have written a formal letter of complaint and sent it
via USPS to the USCG because I was unsure of what else I could do.

I want nothing from this captain other than to make him more aware others
near him. I seek no wrath of God (Dave), I want no money, credits,
apologies, or compensation of any sort. I just want him to slow down before
someone is seriously hurt or killed.

Scout

Duty, Honor, Safety
 

On Aug 16, 1:14 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Aug 16, 11:55 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

groups.com...

Don't know what it's like in Texas, but here the hbs are very
protective
of
their marina and the people, commercial or pleasure-boaters. Most of
the
people know the hb and given the prices of the slips, they would
prefer
to
have the sailboats than the fishing boats. If the hb did nothing, they
could
be liable. Can't help it if your complaints are laughed at, however.

--
"j" ganz -Hidequoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We don't have no glorified parking lot cop type hb here.

If I had a crew member injured.. I'd track down the boat and confront
the skipper directly, then call the USCG. We do not need no stinking
complaint dept, or Capt. Kangaroo parking lot cops. You're soooo gay
Gaynz..

Joe

So, Joe finally does a melt down. Can't actually present any facts, so he
attacks me personally. Sure says a lot about you.

--
"j" ganz -Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I presented the facts.

No you didn't.



Scout said a crew member was injured by a wake.

No he didn't.

Ok lets review..I know this is hard but focus Jon.

"Sunday, August 12, when the Miss Beach Haven, with
complete disregard for the safety of others, steamed through the very
narrow channel near Goosebar Sedge, throwing so much water so closely
to us that you caused an injury to my crew when she fell in the
galley. "



You said smart Captain's will lie.
I said they will not

This is your opinion vs. my opinion. Nothing you've said has convinced me
that you're right.

Well I guess all the licenced Capt'n you run with are liars and
cowards, without any honor..That must suck. Oh well I guess you will
fit in nicely.



You said inform the Harbor Master.
I said you should consult your CFR, and notify the proper officals.

I said that the HB would be able to deal with this quickly and efficiently.

VS doing it yourself... to the proper authorties as defined in the CFR



You said the CG will ignore a wake induced injury unless they
witnessed it.

No I didn't.

"they're just going
to say they can't do anything."



I say they will investagate.

Your opinion.

It's not an opinion. If the USCG fails to investigate then they can be
brought up on charges of derilection of duty.



You said Scout lost creadibility by informing others on a sailng NG.
I say he did not.

I changed my mind, given who it was, which was unclear originally.

Ohh so if it's a buddie he's right..if not.. he loses all
credibility.. I see where you are coming from.

Who's right?

Not you in my opinion, especially after the personal attack.

Oh my..Do you base all marine law and federal regulations on people
pointing out your personal and proffesional flaws?

Joe

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"j" ganz - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Duty, Honor, Safety
 

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 16, 1:14 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message
Ok lets review..I know this is hard but focus Jon.

"Sunday, August 12, when the Miss Beach Haven, with
complete disregard for the safety of others, steamed through the very
narrow channel near Goosebar Sedge, throwing so much water so closely
to us that you caused an injury to my crew when she fell in the
galley. "

My mistake. In that case, the CG should be notified.

You said smart Captain's will lie.
I said they will not

This is your opinion vs. my opinion. Nothing you've said has convinced me
that you're right.

Well I guess all the licenced Capt'n you run with are liars and
cowards, without any honor..That must suck. Oh well I guess you will
fit in nicely.

He's not much of a captain if he's doing something illegal, so what brings
you to the conclusion he's going to be honest about this?

Still with the personal insults.... I know you're an angry guy. Were you
molested?



You said inform the Harbor Master.
I said you should consult your CFR, and notify the proper officals.

I said that the HB would be able to deal with this quickly and
efficiently.

VS doing it yourself... to the proper authorties as defined in the CFR

Yes vs. doing it yourself, which is not productive unless of course you
think threatening him is the right thing to do.



You said the CG will ignore a wake induced injury unless they
witnessed it.

No I didn't.

"they're just going
to say they can't do anything."



I say they will investagate.

Your opinion.

It's not an opinion. If the USCG fails to investigate then they can be
brought up on charges of derilection of duty.

If there were no injuries, it's a he-said/she-said situation. Their
"investigation" will be to tell you to give them some evidence.

You said Scout lost creadibility by informing others on a sailng NG.
I say he did not.

I changed my mind, given who it was, which was unclear originally.

Ohh so if it's a buddie he's right..if not.. he loses all
credibility.. I see where you are coming from.

No. If he has credibility, then I tend to listen. You listen to crackpots?
Oh, that must be it.

Who's right?

Not you in my opinion, especially after the personal attack.

Oh my..Do you base all marine law and federal regulations on people
pointing out your personal and proffesional flaws?

I base my impressions about someone's knowledge based in some measure upon
how they're able to communicate. You need work.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Duty, Honor, Safety
 

Welcome to sailing, Scout.

I think I'd be correct in saying that we've all (except for
bobspit who really doesn't sail) been in this same
situation, a time or 2.

My advice?...carry a gun, a BIG gun.

Scotty


"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
Jon and Joe - I want to thank you and others here for
giving me some
constructive criticism and sound advice for dealing with
this event.

I posted my original message without much introduction,
which may have been
a mistake. I had hoped to get some honest feedback without
having to type a
long narrative, so I copied and pasted the letter that I
sent to the
captains of the boat in question. I probably should have
edited it and sent
it in a discussion format for Dave's sake. Had I done so,
perhaps I would
not have given him what he apparently feels is
justification to lash out
with suspicion, ignorance, and insults. I'm not one to
make up a story just
to stir trouble; the captain of that ship endangered my
crew and greatly
alarmed us; I felt that no undue hardship would be caused
him by the group's
discussion of the rights and responsibilities of large,
fast moving boats in
narrow channels. Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the
name of the boat,
but at the time I wrote that piece I didn't exactly feel
that I owed them
any courtesies.

In addition to that, I am writing in on the heels of Doug,
who recently
stated that New Jersey boaters appear to be the most
obnoxious of all. I
felt I could offer both an anecdotal passage in support of
his observations,
and a request for advice - all with one easy post.

I have not heard back from the company and I don't expect
that I will unless
I push this further. I have written a formal letter of
complaint and sent it
via USPS to the USCG because I was unsure of what else I
could do.

I want nothing from this captain other than to make him
more aware others
near him. I seek no wrath of God (Dave), I want no money,
credits,
apologies, or compensation of any sort. I just want him to
slow down before
someone is seriously hurt or killed.

Scout

Duty, Honor, Safety
 

On Aug 16, 5:30 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Aug 16, 1:14 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message
Ok lets review..I know this is hard but focus Jon.

"Sunday, August 12, when the Miss Beach Haven, with
complete disregard for the safety of others, steamed through the very
narrow channel near Goosebar Sedge, throwing so much water so closely
to us that you caused an injury to my crew when she fell in the
galley. "

My mistake. In that case, the CG should be notified.

Should be, but not required, because the injury did not need more than
basic first aid. had it required further medical attention then it
would be required by law.

You said smart Captain's will lie.
I said they will not

This is your opinion vs. my opinion. Nothing you've said has convinced me
that you're right.

Well I guess all the licenced Capt'n you run with are liars and
cowards, without any honor..That must suck. Oh well I guess you will
fit in nicely.

He's not much of a captain if he's doing something illegal, so what brings
you to the conclusion he's going to be honest about this?


DUTY:
Perhaps he did not realize what he is doing is illegal, infact unless
he is in a no wake zone then he is doing nothing illegal, until he
hurts someone or damages someone property. He may be a cluess newbe
Capt who has no ideal what it's like to be hit with a 20 kt 5 ft wake
in a small saiboat. Someone needs to address the issue with him, and
that is Scout duty as the Captain of the affected craft.

HONOR:
Yes I feel that most licenced USMM master have hornor and will not
lie to cover up a mistake. Most will stand up and admit to a mistake.
They will not lie.

Safety:
Scout letter reached the owners, the owners will address the issue
with the operator, yet I doubt they will respond directly (Advice from
the Dave's in the World)

Either way the operator will not IMO do it again.


Still with the personal insults.... I know you're an angry guy. Were you
molested?

There was this 29yo airforce Cap's wife, ...but I was 13..does that
count?
Thanks for the memory jolt.


You said inform the Harbor Master.
I said you should consult your CFR, and notify the proper officals.

I said that the HB would be able to deal with this quickly and
efficiently.

VS doing it yourself... to the proper authorties as defined in the CFR

Yes vs. doing it yourself, which is not productive unless of course you
think threatening him is the right thing to do.

Why are you always saying threatening? I rather follow thru then
threaten to follow thru


You said the CG will ignore a wake induced injury unless they
witnessed it.

No I didn't.

"they're just going
to say they can't do anything."

I say they will investagate.

Your opinion.

It's not an opinion. If the USCG fails to investigate then they can be
brought up on charges of derilection of duty.

If there were no injuries, it's a he-said/she-said situation. Their
"investigation" will be to tell you to give them some evidence.

We were not talking about no injuries...**** if there are no injuries
then it's a chance to surf the boat.

You said Scout lost creadibility by informing others on a sailng NG.
I say he did not.

I changed my mind, given who it was, which was unclear originally.

Ohh so if it's a buddie he's right..if not.. he loses all
credibility.. I see where you are coming from.

No. If he has credibility, then I tend to listen. You listen to crackpots?
Oh, that must be it.

I listen to everyone.

Who's right?

Not you in my opinion, especially after the personal attack.

Oh my..Do you base all marine law and federal regulations on people
pointing out your personal and proffesional flaws?

I base my impressions about someone's knowledge based in some measure upon
how they're able to communicate. You need work.

Indeed, I practice here.

Joe

--
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- Show quoted text -

Duty, Honor, Safety
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 16, 5:30 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Aug 16, 1:14 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message
Ok lets review..I know this is hard but focus Jon.

"Sunday, August 12, when the Miss Beach Haven, with
complete disregard for the safety of others, steamed through the very
narrow channel near Goosebar Sedge, throwing so much water so closely
to us that you caused an injury to my crew when she fell in the
galley. "

My mistake. In that case, the CG should be notified.

Should be, but not required, because the injury did not need more than
basic first aid. had it required further medical attention then it
would be required by law.

Wow... I guess that's why I said should.

DUTY:
Perhaps he did not realize what he is doing is illegal, infact unless
he is in a no wake zone then he is doing nothing illegal, until he
hurts someone or damages someone property. He may be a cluess newbe
Capt who has no ideal what it's like to be hit with a 20 kt 5 ft wake
in a small saiboat. Someone needs to address the issue with him, and
that is Scout duty as the Captain of the affected craft.

A clueless newbe who's a licensed captain? Sure. Whatever you say.

HONOR:
Yes I feel that most licenced USMM master have hornor and will not
lie to cover up a mistake. Most will stand up and admit to a mistake.
They will not lie.

I agree.

Safety:
Scout letter reached the owners, the owners will address the issue
with the operator, yet I doubt they will respond directly (Advice from
the Dave's in the World)

Gee... sounds just about what I said. But, it's sounds original when it
comes from you.

Either way the operator will not IMO do it again.

Key phrase... IMO.

Still with the personal insults.... I know you're an angry guy. Were you
molested?

There was this 29yo airforce Cap's wife, ...but I was 13..does that
count?
Thanks for the memory jolt.


If you forgot, then you do have a serious problem. :-)

Yes vs. doing it yourself, which is not productive unless of course you
think threatening him is the right thing to do.

Why are you always saying threatening? I rather follow thru then
threaten to follow thru

You said it not me.

No. If he has credibility, then I tend to listen. You listen to
crackpots?
Oh, that must be it.

I listen to everyone.

Apparently.

Who's right?

Not you in my opinion, especially after the personal attack.

Oh my..Do you base all marine law and federal regulations on people
pointing out your personal and proffesional flaws?

I base my impressions about someone's knowledge based in some measure
upon
how they're able to communicate. You need work.

Indeed, I practice here.


Keep practicing. You'll get it eventually. Of course, I'm an optimist.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Duty, Honor, Safety
 

On Aug 16, 8:44 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Aug 16, 5:30 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Aug 16, 1:14 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message
Ok lets review..I know this is hard but focus Jon.

"Sunday, August 12, when the Miss Beach Haven, with
complete disregard for the safety of others, steamed through the very
narrow channel near Goosebar Sedge, throwing so much water so closely
to us that you caused an injury to my crew when she fell in the
galley. "

My mistake. In that case, the CG should be notified.

Should be, but not required, because the injury did not need more than
basic first aid. had it required further medical attention then it
would be required by law.

Wow... I guess that's why I said should.

DUTY:
Perhaps he did not realize what he is doing is illegal, infact unless
he is in a no wake zone then he is doing nothing illegal, until he
hurts someone or damages someone property. He may be a cluess newbe
Capt who has no ideal what it's like to be hit with a 20 kt 5 ft wake
in a small saiboat. Someone needs to address the issue with him, and
that is Scout duty as the Captain of the affected craft.

A clueless newbe who's a licensed captain? Sure. Whatever you say.

Sure..How many deckhands do you know running a boat? So if a fellow
get a licences then he is allowed to run a boat..he will be a
newbee...like you.

Your licences is a licence to learn..not proof you know everything.

HONOR:
Yes I feel that most licenced USMM master have hornor and will not
lie to cover up a mistake. Most will stand up and admit to a mistake.
They will not lie.

I agree.

Then why did you say he would lie? And that any smart person would
denign doing anything wrong?

Safety:
Scout letter reached the owners, the owners will address the issue
with the operator, yet I doubt they will respond directly (Advice from
the Dave's in the World)

Gee... sounds just about what I said. But, it's sounds original when it
comes from you.

You but you added that the Captain will lie, and the USCG will do
nothing.

Either way the operator will not IMO do it again.

Key phrase... IMO.

Still with the personal insults.... I know you're an angry guy. Were you
molested?

There was this 29yo airforce Cap's wife, ...but I was 13..does that
count?
Thanks for the memory jolt.

If you forgot, then you do have a serious problem. :-)

I did not forget, had I forgotten, I would not have mentioned her..


Yes vs. doing it yourself, which is not productive unless of course you
think threatening him is the right thing to do.

Why are you always saying threatening? I rather follow thru then
threaten to follow thru

You said it not me.

No. If he has credibility, then I tend to listen. You listen to
crackpots?
Oh, that must be it.

I listen to everyone.

Apparently.

"To listen well, is as powerful a means of influence as to talk
well, and is as essential to all true conversation"


Who's right?

Not you in my opinion, especially after the personal attack.

Oh my..Do you base all marine law and federal regulations on people
pointing out your personal and proffesional flaws?

I base my impressions about someone's knowledge based in some measure
upon
how they're able to communicate. You need work.

Indeed, I practice here.

Keep practicing. You'll get it eventually. Of course, I'm an optimist.

Will do.

Joe

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