Maybe your experiences in school led you to have these
prejudices against teachers?


Dave wrote:
My conclusions about today's unionized teachers do indeed derive in part
from my own experiences in school

Where you were ridiculed constantly for being so gullible &
dumb?

... You
see, my school days were before teachers became unionized, and my father was
for a number of years the president of the local school board.

I see. In other words, in the perpetual war between teachers
and administrators, you hunker down on the administrator side.

Why am I not surprised.



Fast forward 20 years and the teachers in the public schools are almost
without exception drawn from the ranks of those who can't master any
substantive field and so study "education."

Not surprised, again, to see that this is your attitude.

You are part of the problem, and so it's not a bit
surprising that you loudly & repeatedly miss all clues
pointing towards a solution.

DSK

How about freeing teacher's salaries from taxes? An easy way to give
them a raise without costing residents a penny.

Ole Thom

Freeing Salary from taxes wouldn't give the Unions an excuse to raise
dues either

You are completely and totally wrong.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Fast forward 20 years and the teachers in the public schools are almost
without exception drawn from the ranks of those who can't master any
substantive field and so study "education." Unionized. No merit pay. No
work beyond the minimum required in the union contract. Impossible to fire
if they're incompetent. And it's 30 years and out.

Actually, they do to a large extent. Many teachers spend their own money on
supplies that the schools should, but don't supply.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Yes, it will work. You have to give people a living wage that's
somewhere
close to the value they contribute to society. Teachers should
not have to
pay for their own supplies, for example.


They don't.

Good idea. Some states give teachers tax breaks or provide them the
opportunity to purchase homes at reduced rates.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
How about freeing teacher's salaries from taxes? An easy way to give
them a raise without costing residents a penny.

Ole Thom

Not here they don't.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Actually, they do to a large extent. Many teachers spend their
own money on
supplies that the schools should, but don't supply.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Yes, it will work. You have to give people a living wage
that's
somewhere
close to the value they contribute to society. Teachers
should
not have to
pay for their own supplies, for example.


They don't.

"Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in message

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 04:40:20 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:

Perhaps you simply have no ability to make your points concise and
understandable. Of course it's always easier to blame everyone but
yourself
for the misperception.


I never considered that I might have to "dumb down" my posts for you
to be able to grasp them. I guess you are among those that the
education system has failed to educate.

Yeah, right. I understood your premise, but found it erroneously presented.
Present your arguments intelligently and you won't become a target.

Not even close. Unless you have kids that *want* an education, you're
barking up a tree in the wrong forest. The solution must begin at home,
where kids have to be instilled with the desire to be educated, and
convinced that an education is critical to their future well-being. Of
course if their parent(s) is/are clueless to these issues, the kid will be
similarly clueless. The state requires the kid to attend school, which
he/she hates and wants nothing more than to avoid. It can be the best,
most
innovative and efficient educational program in existence, but futile if
the
kid isn't interested.


There you go, being small minded, and short sighted again, Jeff.
Improve the education system so that successive generations will have
more and more chance of being raised by parents that DO have a clue.

The cultural rejection of education is self-perpetuating. You can alter and
inprove the system until it encompasses the entire GDP and you'll still have
a culture of people for whom education means nothing. (Hint: don't read
race here--this culture of ignorance crosses racial lines rather nicely)
The process must begin at home. We constantly hear how "bright" oriental
students are; how they almost universally excel in primary, secondary, and
college-level programs. Do you honestly believe they are genetically
superior in terms of brilliance and the ability to learn and absorb? The
primary difference between them and those who fail the educational process
is parental/family motivation. Without that, the whole process is an
exercise in futility. Throwing money at education has been tried, and it
has failed. Answer this: why, if the system is so broken, do so many excel
within the existing one?

That's always the best concept, but you've got the methods all wrong.


Well, I agree that a better education would not have helped you much,
Jeffy.

Care to compare advanced degrees? GPAs?

Max

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
I think it starts, as you said, with instilling the desire to learn in kids
from their parents. So, part of it is to try and keep families together, or
if that's not possible,

A lofty goal, to be sure, but we already have three or four generations of
people (crossing all racial and ethnic lines, by the way) who are convinced
that the two-parent home is obsolete and that education is pointless. The
situation is exacerbating, not remitting.

ensure that single parents have enough bandwidth to help their kids and
still earn a decent wage.

Care to translate your "bandwidth" analogy into English?


We need to pay teachers more, since this will attract better teachers.

Numerous studies have demonstrated redundantly that money is not the prime
motivator in attracting individuals to certain professions, teaching
included. But tying the teacher's hands with respect to discipline, leaving
him prone to litigation, open to student abuse, and hating his/her job is
hardly conducive to attracting quality individuals to education. Once again
the *solution* of throwing money at the problem is and has been a failure.

We need to test kids, but not put the emphasis of teaching to the test.

Of course, all this smacks of socialism, but actually it makes good
business sense.

Education in the USA is highly socialistic already, so what's the big deal.
A proper identification of the problem is the answer, however. Too bad that
every time the problem is examined under a microscope and the real issues
are unearthed, the political correctness police prohibit airing and dealing
with them. Heaven forbid that we might examine the drawbacks of
single-parent families, cultural anti-education biases, etc.

Max

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

"DSK" wrote in message

It's all communism, comrade.

Why do you think a baby's first words are invariably "Da Da"?

My grandson's first word was "nyet."

Max